Should have resigned after Sam Howell’s career ended.
UNC Football Catch-All Thread 2024 Season | End of Mack Brown 2.0, Bowl in Boston Dec 28
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I pray to God that we decline a bowl invitation. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from it. I don't want this staff conducting another practice.
Mulberry Heel
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Don't have much to add other than I didn't have high hopes of winning today, given that Doeren simply owns Mack. I do give our guys (especially the offensive players) full credit and gratitude for coming out with some real fight and competitiveness. Given our lousy defenses for most of the past decade, it was fitting that we lost this game mostly because our defense couldn't stop State from scoring every single time they had the ball in the second half, and couldn't hold them with less than two minutes remaining. Our final offensive series of throwing the ball five yards downfield with just seconds remaining was fitting as well.
Just final proof, as if it were still needed, that Mack and his entire staff needed to go. I don't hate Mack and he did some very good things for UNC football, especially in his first stint here, but he's definitely past his prime and should have retired a couple of seasons ago. And one of the first priorities for a new coach has simply got to be changing the whole culture of our defense - they desperately need some toughness and simple competency instilled into that side of the ball, period. Right now, other than some toughness and competitiveness displayed by individual players, our overall program is as soft as tissue paper, and that's on Mack. And the next coach is going to have to change that for us to show any real improvement.
Just final proof, as if it were still needed, that Mack and his entire staff needed to go. I don't hate Mack and he did some very good things for UNC football, especially in his first stint here, but he's definitely past his prime and should have retired a couple of seasons ago. And one of the first priorities for a new coach has simply got to be changing the whole culture of our defense - they desperately need some toughness and simple competency instilled into that side of the ball, period. Right now, other than some toughness and competitiveness displayed by individual players, our overall program is as soft as tissue paper, and that's on Mack. And the next coach is going to have to change that for us to show any real improvement.
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CFordUNC
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Obviously I am hopeful that we get this next hire right but I have to confess that in my ~25 years as a UNC fan, which dates back to when I was 9 years old, I have never felt more apathetic about the future of UNC football. I was the naive idiot who used to think that John Bunting was juuuuust one season away from putting it all together. So I've always been an enormous UNC football homer, which was only exacerbated by my four years with the program in school.
I'm at a point where I just don't think that we have the institutional fortitude or desire to do what it takes to be good in football. Our gameday operations, fan experience, and atmosphere is the worst I've ever seen- it's got to be the worst in the Power 4. No exaggeration. The athletic department puts forth the minimum possible effort in everything to do with our football program. We just aren't serious about being good in football. Oh, sure, we *say* all the right things about how we need for football to be good for the entire athletics department to flourish. But we don't actually walk the walk.
Talent hasn't been a problem for UNC football for the entirety of my time as a UNC football fan with the lone excpetion of about two or three years in the middle Bunting years. But otherwise, Bunting's last class was great. Butch Davis recruited at a top 10-20 level. Larry Fedora recruited at roughly a Top 25 level. Mack Brown 2.0 recruited three consecutive top 15 classes. We have had more talent on our roster than more than 3/4 of the teams we've played year in and year out over the last 15 years or so. Butch Davis and Mack Brown are two of the better college football coaches of the last 2-3 decades. They certainly weren't perfect and had their flaws as coaches, but they didn't completely forget how to coach from Miami to UNC and from Texas to UNC, respectively.
I don't really have a thesis or point other than to vent and express exasperated frustration that UNC football seems destined to be unserious forever. Hope they prove me wrong at some point.
I'm at a point where I just don't think that we have the institutional fortitude or desire to do what it takes to be good in football. Our gameday operations, fan experience, and atmosphere is the worst I've ever seen- it's got to be the worst in the Power 4. No exaggeration. The athletic department puts forth the minimum possible effort in everything to do with our football program. We just aren't serious about being good in football. Oh, sure, we *say* all the right things about how we need for football to be good for the entire athletics department to flourish. But we don't actually walk the walk.
Talent hasn't been a problem for UNC football for the entirety of my time as a UNC football fan with the lone excpetion of about two or three years in the middle Bunting years. But otherwise, Bunting's last class was great. Butch Davis recruited at a top 10-20 level. Larry Fedora recruited at roughly a Top 25 level. Mack Brown 2.0 recruited three consecutive top 15 classes. We have had more talent on our roster than more than 3/4 of the teams we've played year in and year out over the last 15 years or so. Butch Davis and Mack Brown are two of the better college football coaches of the last 2-3 decades. They certainly weren't perfect and had their flaws as coaches, but they didn't completely forget how to coach from Miami to UNC and from Texas to UNC, respectively.
I don't really have a thesis or point other than to vent and express exasperated frustration that UNC football seems destined to be unserious forever. Hope they prove me wrong at some point.
Mulberry Heel
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I would agree except that I think that NIL has changed things enormously. For UNC to continue to be good in all sports we simply have to start paying out more money or we're going to be left behind in a lot more than football. And given that football is the main revenue generator in college sports I don't think we can afford to be complacent and just accept mediocre football anymore. NIL has really given the SEC and Big 10 a major leg up, and we need to keep up. If we don't and just keep following the pattern you mentioned then we're going to be putting ourselves at a money disadvantage compared to many other P5 teams, in basketball as well as football. But you may well be right and we'll just hire a "meh" coaching candidate and continue to keep running in place.
I
I’m hopeful that we luck out and end up staying the best P4 opening this hiring cycle so that we have the best chance possible to hire a good coach (Sumrall or Schumann). Obviously they could flop and continue the UNC football trend of mediocrity, but I think either one of those guys with their SEC backgrounds could at least come in with a fresh perspective and help us try to improve some of that off the field stuff (in addition to the on field product obviously).
The lack of attention to detail when it comes to gameday ops at UNC is glaring when you go to another power conference game and then go back to a game at Kenan to compare. There are so many little things we could do make the campus more conducive to tailgating and to improve the experience in the stadium itself. The people in charge of that stuff just don’t even try.
I’m hopeful that we luck out and end up staying the best P4 opening this hiring cycle so that we have the best chance possible to hire a good coach (Sumrall or Schumann). Obviously they could flop and continue the UNC football trend of mediocrity, but I think either one of those guys with their SEC backgrounds could at least come in with a fresh perspective and help us try to improve some of that off the field stuff (in addition to the on field product obviously).
CFordUNC
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It is the absolute damndest thing. I've been to literally every single ACC venue (except for Stanford and SMU- but actually have been to Cal!) and I swear our gameday ops are the worst by a country mile. Even places like Duke and Wake are way better. It's unreal. Just like you said, though: the people in charge don't really even try.
JCTarheel82
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Turd Ferguson
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What exactly do other places do better in regards to game day ops?
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Oh goodness...literally EVERYTHING.
As a comparison, Ann Arbor is not terribly different than Chapel Hill. If possible, access to the Big House is actually worse than it is to Kenan. Small neighborhood side streets and miles from the interstate. Yet, they manage to park 110,000 fans and move them into and out of that stadium with zero issues. They park cars on every square inch of grass and encourage tailgating hours ahead of time. They clean it all up by the next day. Once inside the stadium, everything is more efficient....concessions, restrooms, movement of people. This is in a stadium that is just as old as Kenan and supporting 3x the crowd.
In my experience, the biggest difference is how other towns/universities put in real effort to make the tailgating a good experience.
- Most of the campus is “open for business”. Fans can park and set up shop basically anywhere that there’s room, and they do little things like allowing vendors, setting up adequate porta potties, etc. to make it as fun and efficient as possible so that fans actually want to partake. UNC and the town of CH are severely lacking on this front.
- Inside of the stadium, my biggest qualm with Kenan is the music cadence. I know, I know, sounds insignificant at first, but I swear it makes a huge difference with how engaged the crowd gets when the band and the DJ are actually putting thought into what kind of music they’re playing, and when they play it. The other thing that stands out is our congested concourse layout.
Turd Ferguson
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I do agree the lack of parking and places for tailgating for all the fans near the stadium is an issue. Also, most of the music they play at the football games and basketball games sucks.
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Nothing is going to change without a complete overhaul of our FB program which isnt going to happen.
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More horrible than hiring a old, sweet grandpa who ran out on us in 97 to coach a program with a soft culture problem?
circlesky88
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If really feels like this search is going to be a shit show.
Yes. I always thought that hiring 67 year old Mack Brown was extremely lazy and shortsighted, but hiring 72 year old Belichick would easily be a worse hire. It’s not going to actually happen, but the fact that it’s apparently even being considered is a travesty. Very on brand for UNC football though.
circlesky88
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And Belichick has never even coached college football. He started earning $25 a week with the Colts in 1975 abd his whole career has been NFL.
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No way. Bill B is a tough ass hard nosed fb coach that our weak FB culture needs. MB was the opposite of what we needed and it has come to fruition.
You are right that its not goin to happen because our admin is absolutely clueless on how to build a winning FB culture.
We would be lede story on every sports talk show for 9 months. Now if he articulated a plan with young stud assistants and to depart in 3 to 5 years and hand off, ... I hope we get mileage out of his expressed interest. We got a bunch of better options.