UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON

[Bigs23]

I'm sure you realize Roy is hardly a disinterested impartial observer. He hand-picked Hubert for this job and made sure his choice was implemented. Roy would be admitting a big mistake while making Hubert look bad if he said anything other than what he said. Roy's finger prints are all over this situation. So you may find Roy's take more interesting but that doesn't make it more valid.

Of course. I still find his opinion far more interesting than most others.

 

[TarSpiel]

I've got some things that seem off to me, and places where Coach Davis seems to come in for some valid criticism.

But I'm also aware that there is a *ton* of relevant information I don't have access to. The behind the scenes moves in the portal last summer, how the staff was evaluating JWash, the role of NIL in recruiting against other teams, especially the SEC, how any of our players have practiced, issues of team chemistry, etc. There is so much relevant information that I know I don't know that it makes it very difficult to be so cocksure of my opinions on these issues.

This is clearly not a problem for most of the toxic blowhards in the IC community and in a large part of the Carolina fanbase. They think they know what they don't know, and this makes them think they're a lot smarter than they actually are. Could we have run better schemes given our roster? Probably. Do I know what those are? Nope. I did like the look of our team with JWit at the 4 against Syracuse, but then again it's JWit. I understand the logic of trying to get Powell big minutes at the 4, and having RJ & Ellott on the floor at the same time, and balancing Ian's offense vs. defense. It's hard for me to see what would automatically be a clear answer to any of our problems. The major problem to me is our roster construction, and there was an excellent article recently on IC detailing our pursuit of bigs last summer.

If I could offer one criticism to Coach Davis, I'd say that it seems to me the rotations have been so inconsistent that I wonder if it affects team chemistry on the floor at game time. That's one area that for me, at least from the rafters, looks like something that has a lot of downstream implications. But again, if you're going to cut the rotation to 7 or 8, who loses minutes? That's a tough call. Whoever loses those minutes is likely out the door the day the portal opens.

I'm sure there are a number of valid criticisms of Coach Davis, and a number of them I would on their face be sympathetic to. But this lynch mob is just ridiculous, and more than a couple of them have been calling for Coach Davis' head since the day he was hired. People act like if you just bring in Coach X he'll automatically restore us to where we have been, but this new magic coach is also going to have to deal with brand new issues like yearly roster construction, discipling players who can just leave, players comparing paychecks to themselves and to other players around the country, players getting paid and losing focus, etc.

 

[stankeylegjones]

I've got some things that seem off to me, and places where Coach Davis seems to come in for some valid criticism.

But I'm also aware that there is a *ton* of relevant information I don't have access to. The behind the scenes moves in the portal last summer, how the staff was evaluating JWash, the role of NIL in recruiting against other teams, especially the SEC, how any of our players have practiced, issues of team chemistry, etc. There is so much relevant information that I know I don't know that it makes it very difficult to be so cocksure of my opinions on these issues.

This is clearly not a problem for most of the toxic blowhards in the IC community. They think they know what they don't know, and this makes them think they're a lot smarter than they actually are. Could we have run better schemes given our roster? Probably. Do I know what those are? Nope. I did like the look of our team with JWit at the 4 against Syracuse, but then again it's JWit. I understand the logic of trying to get Powell big minutes at the 4, and having RJ & Ellott on the floor at the same time, and balancing Ian's offense vs. defense. It's hard for me to see what would automatically be a clear answer to any of our problems.

If I could offer one criticism to Coach Davis, I'd say that it seems to me the rotations have been so inconsistent that I wonder if it affects team chemistry on the floor at game time. That's one area that for me, at least from the rafters, looks like something that has a lot of downstream implications. But again, if you're going to cut the rotation to 7 or 8, who loses minutes? That's a tough call.

I'm sure there are a number of valid criticisms of Coach Davis, and a number of them I would on their face be sympathetic to. But this lynch mob is just ridiculous. People act like if you just bring in Coach X he'll automatically restore us to where we have been, but this new magic coach is also going to have to deal with brand new issues like yearly roster construction, discipling players who can just leave, players comparing paychecks to themselves and to other players around the country, etc.

I don't think anyone is saying that things will definitely become better with a new coach. Things could, they could also get worse, or even stay the same. What some of us are saying is that HD/staff are not performing their duties at the standard that UNC basketball should be. Worrying about if a new staff will succeed should not be reason to continue with the current staff, given the current staff are not succeeding. You cut ties with with the staff who are not succeeding and you set out to find a staff that you think will - while doing enough vetting to give you a high(ish) level of confidence that you new hire will succeed.

I do understand your last paragraph and the points in it. It's definitely a hard job, for sure. However, that job is being done far better than this staff by many staffs around the country - those issues are not any worse at UNC than at other places.

 

[TarSpiel]

However, that job is being done far better than this staff by many staffs around the country - those issues are not any worse at UNC than at other places.

True, but it's a clue that the SEC is kicking almost everyone's butt...I just can't believe that their NIL war chests have had nothing to do with it.

Coach Davis will need to make adjustments doing forward, and so will the people who sign our players' paychecks. I think it's just way too early to make a final decision on Coach Davis, especially since he has shown signs of being able to succeed at a very high level. It's been a really tough year, but we're less than a year away from a JWit brain fart that kept us from being back in the Elite Eight. Again. Against Clemson.

 

[TarSpiel]

True, but it's a clue that the SEC is kicking almost everyone's butt...I just can't believe that their NIL war chests have had nothing to do with it.

Coach Davis will need to make adjustments doing forward, and so will the people who sign our players' paychecks. I think it's just way too early to make a final decision on Coach Davis, especially since he has shown signs of being able to succeed at a very high level. It's been a really tough year, but we're less than a year away from a JWit brain fart that kept us from being back in the Elite Eight. Again. Playing against Clemson for another Final Four.

 

[Bigs23]

Neither does it make it less valid, unless someone is willing to question Roy’s integrity.

I will never do that, and as much as he has a personal vested interest in HD’s success due to their relationship and his hand in the decision, he also has an interest in the program’s success far beyond that of anyone on this board. And he also has an understanding of the current climate and recruiting landscape, the inner workings of the program and team, and how Hubert Davis fits into all of that… far beyond that of anyone on this board.

Just because Roy resisted and ultimately rejected the current landscape doesn’t mean he doesn’t understand how it works. And he knows HD and the program and the ways all of that might evolve better than anyone alive. Certainly better than anyone bitching and moaning here. His vantage point is not narrower than ours, it’s far, far broader.

So sure, you could argue he’s blinded by passion and you all are seeing something that he’s failing or unwilling to see. But it could also mean he’s seeing something down the road that you all are failing to see, and hasty shortsightedness is the last thing needed. Because it IS hasty, make no mistake — the Heels were a #1 seed that got edged out in the Sweet 16 barely a year ago.

To all those who think it’s the former and you know better, I’d suggest some humility and deference to Roy. Instead of “poor old guy’s just lost touch and trying to save face…” But personally I think it’s the latter, and once HD gets his sea legs for roster construction (as ALL coaches are still trying to do, some with more luck than others) then things will smooth out and get back into the consistency everyone’s used to.

Especially when the best answer anyone has for who his replacement should be is “a top coach.” Fuck does that mean anymore? Nobody knows yet. You want Dan Hurley or Jon Scheyer? I sure as hell don’t. They couldn’t do a damn thing different with the current roster. Jay Wright? The guy who got out for the same reasons Roy did? He saw the coming landscape and preferred to hang out in the studio and with his family. So who then?? Who is this mythical coach who “is worthy of an upper echelon job like UNC” as you all like to regurgitate, as though HD isn’t “worthy.” It’s largely a bunch of bullshit entitlement and impatience. And Roy would tell you the same without the curse word.

The number of non-qualified people who believe they understand UNC basketball better than Roy Williams is astounding.

 

[mpaer]

We definitely need a Big war chest to maintain our Blue Blood status

 

[SmilingJack]

We definitely need a Big war chest to maintain our Blue Blood status

Seriously if we can spend 50 million on a old ass retired NFL coach we need to get HD no less than $Million> plus per player so we won't miss out on the players we'll need. I can't recall not having a big man on the team. Hell even Warren Martin and other bigs were better than nobody.

 

[SnoopRob]

I can't recall not having a big man on the team. Hell even Warren Martin and other bigs were better than nobody.

We have bigs on the team…

Jae’Lyn Withers
Jalen Washington
James Brown
Ven-Allen Lubin
Ty Claude

…are all bigs.

What do you think we’re missing (outside of skills that mesh with our schemes)?

 

[finesse]

A leader on court and a shooting touch.

 

[stankeylegjones]

True, but it's a clue that the SEC is kicking almost everyone's butt...I just can't believe that their NIL war chests have had nothing to do with it.

Coach Davis will need to make adjustments doing forward, and so will the people who sign our players' paychecks. I think it's just way too early to make a final decision on Coach Davis, especially since he has shown signs of being able to succeed at a very high level. It's been a really tough year, but we're less than a year away from a JWit brain fart that kept us from being back in the Elite Eight. Again. Against Clemson.

The NIL funding is a valid point, imo. However there have been reports on IC that lack of NIL is not the main reason for striking out on players (in some cases, UNC actually big higher than the team that got the player). It's also not my reasoning for why I think HD/staff are not ready to lead UNC basketball, yet. Looking at the sets, on both ends, lack of forming to match their players' skill sets, lineups, philosophies, and many more reasons that have been on full display this year is why I don't think they're ready.

 

[duluoz]

Looking at the sets, on both ends, lack of forming to match their players' skill sets, lineups, philosophies, and many more reasons that have been on full display this year is why I don't think they're ready.

I hear a lot of complaining here about this — not running a scheme to match the roster makeup.

So let’s hear it from you — what sets would you run, with a team who can’t shoot consistently, and also can’t score inside consistently? These were things that on paper, should not have been nearly as big a challenge as they’ve been. We all thought Withers and Washington would’ve developed into something more by now. None of us thought shooting would be quite this big a problem, with Trimble and Cadeau having been expected to develop further and the big name frosh coming in. Not to mention the Tyson disaster — a guy who was sought after but just can’t cut it. So, given that every opponent packs the paint or runs a zone and dares them to shoot (except when they’re blitzing RJ) and focuses on limiting any transition offense — what is the magical scheme that this team should be running?

Also what are several of the “many more reasons” that have been on full display? You seem to like to hold people accountable for their claims. So let’s hear it?

 

[stankeylegjones]

I hear a lot of complaining here about this — not running a scheme to match the roster makeup.

So let’s hear it from you — what sets would you run, with a team who can’t shoot consistently, and also can’t score inside consistently? These were things that on paper, should not have been nearly as big a challenge as they’ve been. We all thought Withers and Washington would’ve developed into something more by now. None of us thought shooting would be quite this big a problem, with Trimble and Cadeau having been expected to develop further and the big name frosh coming in. Not to mention the Tyson disaster — a guy who was sought after but just can’t cut it. So, given that every opponent packs the paint or runs a zone and dares them to shoot (except when they’re blitzing RJ) and focuses on limiting any transition offense — what is the magical scheme that this team should be running?

Also what are several of the “many more reasons” that have been on full display? You seem to like to hold people accountable for their claims. So let’s hear it?

A couple of easy things to try on offense. First, stop having Ian and Seth in the corners. Get them, and the team, moving more - freelance as Roy called it. In short, stop running an offense that is designed for having knock-down shooters in the corner, when you don’t have them. Stop going four small, unless you are going to get out and press, making it more up-and-down. If you insist on running a more set offense, then go with Drake at 3, JWit at 4, and JWash/VAL at 5. Stop playing RJ and Cadeau together.

Maybe those things won’t work, idk. But fuck, stop doing what you know is not going to work.

Would you just keep running the same stuff, with the same lineups? Would you try any changes? If so, what?

JWit and JWash haven’t developed into what we’d hope for, yes, but how can you expect them too when you stop playing them for significant portions of the game/year - especially JWit?

 

[stankeylegjones]

A couple of easy things to try on offense. First, stop having Ian and Seth in the corners. Get them, and the team, moving more - freelance as Roy called it. In short, stop running an offense that is designed for having knock-down shooters in the corner, when you don’t have them. Stop going four small, unless you are going to get out and press, making it more up-and-down. If you insist on running a more set offense, then go with Drake at 3, JWit at 4, and JWash/VAL at 5. Stop playing RJ and Cadeau together.

Maybe those things won’t work, idk. But fuck, stop doing what you know is not going to work.

Would you just keep running the same stuff, with the same lineups? Would you try any changes? If so, what?

JWit and JWash haven’t developed into what we’d hope for, yes, but how can you expect them too when you stop playing them for significant portions of the game/year - especially JWit?

I should mention, Rob Harrington has covered these things quite well in several of the post-game pods, along with articles. If you're interested you can find them on IC.

 

[TarSpiel]

Maybe those things won’t work, idk. But fuck, stop doing what you know is not going to work.

Would you just keep running the same stuff, with the same lineups? Would you try any changes? If so, what?

He's been tinkering with the lineups all year though. That's actually one of my criticisms of the year, there's no rotation stability or muscle memory in our lineups.

Based on Syracuse, just put JWit at the 4 and live with the results.

 

[stankeylegjones]

I hear a lot of complaining here about this — not running a scheme to match the roster makeup.

So let’s hear it from you — what sets would you run, with a team who can’t shoot consistently, and also can’t score inside consistently? These were things that on paper, should not have been nearly as big a challenge as they’ve been. We all thought Withers and Washington would’ve developed into something more by now. None of us thought shooting would be quite this big a problem, with Trimble and Cadeau having been expected to develop further and the big name frosh coming in. Not to mention the Tyson disaster — a guy who was sought after but just can’t cut it. So, given that every opponent packs the paint or runs a zone and dares them to shoot (except when they’re blitzing RJ) and focuses on limiting any transition offense — what is the magical scheme that this team should be running?

Also what are several of the “many more reasons” that have been on full display? You seem to like to hold people accountable for their claims. So let’s hear it?

And, to address your last point, yes, Bigs made up some bullshit. That was pretty fucking weak-ass.

 

[TarSpiel]

The NIL funding is a valid point, imo. However there have been reports on IC that lack of NIL is not the main reason for striking out on players (in some cases, UNC actually big higher than the team that got the player). It's also not my reasoning for why I think HD/staff are not ready to lead UNC basketball, yet. Looking at the sets, on both ends, lack of forming to match their players' skill sets, lineups, philosophies, and many more reasons that have been on full display this year is why I don't think they're ready.

All right, I mean, that's a reasonable disagreement. I don't mind reasonable disagreements.

I do not like the pitchfork mob over on IC, though. It's always burned me up the way fans talk about our players and coaches.

 

[SmilingJack]

We have bigs on the team…

Jae’Lyn Withers
Jalen Washington
James Brown
Ven-Allen Lubin
Ty Claude

…are all bigs.

What do you think we’re missing (outside of skills that mesh with our schemes)?

North Carolina Tar Heels Men's College Basketball Roster - ESPN

Explore the %{year} North Carolina Tar Heels NCAAM roster on ESPN. Includes full details on point guards, shooting guards, power forwards, small forwards and centers.

www.espn.com

Washington & Brown are the only players 6'10" and to be honest neither are what I was hoping could be... centers. You don't have to be 7' to play center but it sure as hell helps. We're without any inside presence and everyone knows it. What's your point? You saying you can coach up a scheme for smaller players to play bigger? A 7'4" player, even a not so good player, is still better than 6'8"-10".
Of course JMHO.

 

[stankeylegjones]

He's been tinkering with the lineups all year though. That's actually one of my criticisms of the year, there's no rotation stability or muscle memory in our lineups.

Based on Syracuse, just put JWit at the 4 and live with the results.

I could be wrong, but I don't feel like there's been tinkering with lineups all year. He had the lineup for the first few games, then changed to four small (replacing Seth when he got hurt with Ian, then replacing Ian for some reason with Seth), then the past couple of games back to JWit. The best lineup, imo, for what HD is trying to run would be RJ, Ian, Drake, JWit, JWash/VAL, bringing Cadeau and Seth off the bench, and not playing RJ with Cadeau for extended periods.

 

[Peppers49]

All right, I mean, that's a reasonable disagreement. I don't mind reasonable disagreements.

I do not like the pitchfork mob over on IC, though. It's always burned me up the way fans talk about our players and coaches.

You clearly have a ton of disdain for our fan base. Have you considered finding another team to root for?