Mulberry Heel
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 2,442
I don't disagree, I just got tired of seeing those dumb comparisons over at IC and was frankly somewhat surprised to see them posted here.
UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON
- Thread starter nycfan
- Start date
- Replies: 3K
- Views: 70K
- UNC Sports
stankeylegjones
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,087
Because Duke is still relevant, and has been lately. When was the last time Duke was a bubble team? Or KU? How about UNC?
No one, here at least, is saying UNC is turning into IU or UCLA, but the current state of the program is sub-par for UNC, and the other blue bloods.
stankeylegjones
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,087
Where have you seen those comparisons here?
In fairness, Dook did miss the tournament in 2021 and has had some lackluster showings in recent seasons. Their best team post-Zion (2022) took 2 Ls to UNC that they’ll never live down short of beating us in a FF, and we’ve had the upper hand in the rivalry as of late.
The difference is that their future trajectory has a noticeably higher floor than what we’re looking at. They are in great shape so far this season and it doesn’t look like their recruiting is going to slow down anytime soon. In comparison, we look awful this season and our recruiting is on the rocks. We’ve targeted a ton of highly rated recruits recently and missed on basically all of them. That goes beyond the typical NIL excuse.
Mulberry Heel
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 2,442
From this post yesterday: "The way we built this thing is no longer viable in today's NIL/Portal era. And it's not going back to the way it was before. Adapt or become Indiana or UCLA, if we haven't already..."
I don't disagree about us needing to change and adapt better to the new NIL/Portal era, or that we could possibly become Indiana or UCLA, but we're certainly not there yet, or even close.
stankeylegjones
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,087
Definitely not there yet. And that post doesn’t read to me like it’s saying we have.
Mulberry Heel
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 2,442
Well, we'll have to disagree on that one - "if we haven't already" at the least sounds as if it's being implied. At any rate either Hubert turns the team around this season or he doesn't, and if he doesn't and we don't make the tourney he'll either be gone or he'll be on a major hot seat for next year, as he should be. I suspect the future of any blue blood college football or basketball program is going to look something like what Belicheck is envisioning for the football program - whether he's able to implement it or not, that's probably what all major college sports programs are going to move to.
Last edited:
Bigs23
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,966
It’s a big part of it. Has that changed?
In sports, a blue blood is a program that is considered to be among the most elite in the sport. The term is often used to describe college basketball and college football programs.
Here are some characteristics of blue blood programs:
- History: Blue blood programs have a long history of success, often dating back to the early days of the sport.
- National reputation: Blue blood programs are known throughout the country and are frequently featured in national media coverage.
- Fan base: Blue blood programs have large and passionate fan bases.
- Tournament appearances: Blue blood programs have made multiple deep runs in the NCAA tournament and are often contenders for the Elite Eight and Final Four.
- National championships: Blue blood programs have won multiple national championships.
Some programs that are often considered blue bloods include:
Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, UConn, UNC, and Indiana.
The term "blue blood" comes from the old idea that aristocratic blood was blue. It is also used as an alternative term for nobility
Centerpiece
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 2,303
We have NOT fallen into obscurity as badly as Indiana or UCLA has fallen the past 25 +/- years.
Indiana and UCLA were always considered Blue Bloods in Basketball. If you don’t agree with that, then you’re probably too young to realize that fact. Perhaps you weren’t born yet when the phrase “basketball blue bloods” came into being.
The first historical mention of “blue bloods” specific to college basketball can be found as early as 1946. (I looked it up and did the research).
Since the late 1980s, college basketball’s “blue bloods” list has always included - in no certain order - UNC, UCLA, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, and d00k (which in 1989, somehow made the list before their first NCAA championship).
Other schools mentioned - from time to time between the 1980’s and today - include: Mich. State, Villanova, Gerorgetown, UCONN, Florida, And Louisville. Even Arizona got a mention here and there.
But no one's in charge, of course, so there are no cut-and-dried rules.
The Lexington Herald-Leader's Jerry Tipton, a longtime Kentucky beat writer, knows what a blue blood is, given his proximity to the 'Cats. In 2011, he wrote, "Kentucky, UCLA, Michigan State, Florida ... Basketball blue bloods representing more than 20 national championships are playing in this pod of the NCAA Tournament this week."
Florida's first national title came in 2006. Sure, another one came a year later, but how do Florida's two championships weigh against Oklahoma State's two from 1945 and 1946, or San Francisco's two from 1955 and 1956?
That's up to the authors of history to decide and history suggests that the notion of blue-blood programs in men's basketball has gained popularity this century, as a way to elevate the haves from the have-nots or to stoke sports-related debate. Below is a graph of the search results for the phrase "basketball blue blood" in newspapers.com's database, showing how rarely the phrase was ever published in newspapers prior to the first national championships won by Duke (1991), Arizona (1997), UConn (1999) or Florida (2006).
While the definition and membership list of men's basketball's blue bloods are in flux, depending on who you ask and when you ask them, whichever 2024/25 NCAA Men's Final Four participant adds a national championship to its trophy case, it may be able to renew its membership application to the sport's club of blue bloods, thanks to a shiny, new trophy.
Indiana and UCLA were always considered Blue Bloods in Basketball. If you don’t agree with that, then you’re probably too young to realize that fact. Perhaps you weren’t born yet when the phrase “basketball blue bloods” came into being.
The first historical mention of “blue bloods” specific to college basketball can be found as early as 1946. (I looked it up and did the research).
Since the late 1980s, college basketball’s “blue bloods” list has always included - in no certain order - UNC, UCLA, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, and d00k (which in 1989, somehow made the list before their first NCAA championship).
Other schools mentioned - from time to time between the 1980’s and today - include: Mich. State, Villanova, Gerorgetown, UCONN, Florida, And Louisville. Even Arizona got a mention here and there.
But no one's in charge, of course, so there are no cut-and-dried rules.
The Lexington Herald-Leader's Jerry Tipton, a longtime Kentucky beat writer, knows what a blue blood is, given his proximity to the 'Cats. In 2011, he wrote, "Kentucky, UCLA, Michigan State, Florida ... Basketball blue bloods representing more than 20 national championships are playing in this pod of the NCAA Tournament this week."
Florida's first national title came in 2006. Sure, another one came a year later, but how do Florida's two championships weigh against Oklahoma State's two from 1945 and 1946, or San Francisco's two from 1955 and 1956?
That's up to the authors of history to decide and history suggests that the notion of blue-blood programs in men's basketball has gained popularity this century, as a way to elevate the haves from the have-nots or to stoke sports-related debate. Below is a graph of the search results for the phrase "basketball blue blood" in newspapers.com's database, showing how rarely the phrase was ever published in newspapers prior to the first national championships won by Duke (1991), Arizona (1997), UConn (1999) or Florida (2006).
While the definition and membership list of men's basketball's blue bloods are in flux, depending on who you ask and when you ask them, whichever 2024/25 NCAA Men's Final Four participant adds a national championship to its trophy case, it may be able to renew its membership application to the sport's club of blue bloods, thanks to a shiny, new trophy.
Centerpiece
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 2,303
I’m on that site too Bigs… I read all of that. I agree with you on the subject.
stankeylegjones
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,087
Thanks for spending the time to write this out. It does help me get more of an understanding of where you're coming from. I do agree with you that, for blue bloods, championships are part of what makes the season successful. I still disagree with you about Duke and KU not falling off like UNC has fallen off - even according to the amount of weight you put into championships.
- Messages
- 5,901
Which site is that?
UNCRx85
Distinguished Member
- Messages
- 381
yeah, all they've done is recruit the best players, win a ton of games with them, and earn high tourney seeds.
I think your argument here, while maybe correct in a black-and-white sense, is quite reductive. The kind of thing people say to make themselves feel better about the way things are.
In terms of current program vitality, Duke's walking the dog on us, man. We're lucky they haven't capitalized more on the ridiculous amount of talent they've had. You're lying to yourself if you said you wouldn't want the talent they bring in.
- Messages
- 674
You can poo poo dook all you want but they are due to win another title soon....its been 9 yrs. Its just a matter of time. F em regardless
Heelsandeers
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 744
Sign me up for getting good players and winning a bunch of games
Final 4s and national championships are a ton of luck in most cases
Final 4s and national championships are a ton of luck in most cases
UNCRx85
Distinguished Member
- Messages
- 381
yeah, this is what fans are concerned about. People cite the crazy run in '22 and throw that whole season in with it as being great. It wasn't. That team stunk for 2/3rds of the year.
Carolina Basketball was built on winning. Winning in the regular season. Winning the ACC. Winning in the NCAAT. And winning on draft day.
I'll take the odds, whatever they are, with having the best players every year. Are there challenges? Sure there are. And there are bound to be some blips, some down years. But this rationalization that being elite every 4 or so years is OK is both naive and unrealistic. Especially if you're missing tournaments in between. You string together some down years, and the elite ones (players and seasons) become harder and harder come by.
Heelsandeers
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 744
"Effort" and "intensity" is like a catch all excuse for when a team plays poorly/below expecations
Not saying it never happens or hasn't happened with this particular group - but every game? I don't buy it
Heelsandeers
Esteemed Member
- Messages
- 744
To me Hubert's success (at least initially) was going to be predicated on getting among the best talent. Both in the HS ranks and portal, once that became the way roster construction was trending. And the hope was X's and O's and other aspects of being a HC would work themselves out with time
He has done some of the roster building and landing of talent - but that has dipped dramatically if we are looking at the last 18 months. Why that is, is the question that needs answered. I still believe he deserves at least another chance to put something together
He has done some of the roster building and landing of talent - but that has dipped dramatically if we are looking at the last 18 months. Why that is, is the question that needs answered. I still believe he deserves at least another chance to put something together
Bigs23
Iconic Member
- Messages
- 1,966