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What Happened to American conservatism?

superrific said:
My recent posts suggest that's true of me. Did I do enough demolishing of that douthbag or should I stop going easy on him?
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You won’t hurt my feelings if you dismantle him to your heart’s content lol.

I think one of the biggest issues with the current iteration of the American left (whatever that is at this point) is that we don’t take enough criticism from those situated in different places on the ideological spectrum. At the very least, it’s useful for making sure our own arguments are sound.

Specifically the whole era of the campus progressive left shouting down people with whom they disagreed was just really stupid to me. I prefer to let people make their arguments, no matter how heinous, and then go from there.
 
Paine said:
You won’t hurt my feelings if you dismantle him to your heart’s content lol.

I think one of the biggest issues with the current iteration of the American left (whatever that is at this point) is that we don’t take enough criticism from those situated in different places on the ideological spectrum. At the very least, it’s useful for making sure our own arguments are sound.

Specifically the whole era of the campus progressive left shouting down people with whom they disagreed was just really stupid to me. I prefer to let people make their arguments, no matter how heinous, and then go from there.
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I don't think I was shouting him down, not metaphorically. I don't think I'm unable to take criticism. I also don't think Douthat has anything useful to say. He's little more than the quintessence of smugness. Pair him up with the platonic form of the Very Serious Person, aka Bret Stephens, and the Times has a winning pair, lol. In fairness, their liberal columnists have also been sucking. They miss Paul Krugman.
 
superrific said:
I don't think I was shouting him down, not metaphorically. I don't think I'm unable to take criticism. I also don't think Douthat has anything useful to say. He's little more than the quintessence of smugness. Pair him up with the platonic form of the Very Serious Person, aka Bret Stephens, and the Times has a winning pair, lol. In fairness, their liberal columnists have also been sucking. They miss Paul Krugman.
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Oh, I wasn’t referring to you. Just more of a general observation. We seem to be coming out of that cultural moment anyways. More of a 2013-2021 phenomenon.
 
Here’s what happened to American conservatism: about 10 years ago, American conservatism was reeling because a Black man with a “Mooslim” middle name of Hussein who was born in Kenya even though his birth certificate states he was born in Hawaii, was in the second term of a successful presidency, and despite most of his larger agenda being constrained or outright blocked by Congress, was wildly popular amongst most everyone who doesn’t use mayonnaise as lubricant and Confederate flag condoms during sexual activity with their immediate family members. This Black man with a Muslim sounding middle name shared by a deposed Iraqi tyrant was handing conservatism its ass on a rainbow…er, silver… platter from a cultural standpoint, and the righties couldn’t handle it (trust me I know- I was one of them).

So along comes an obese New York real estate shyster- himself formerly a Democrat with a previously stated aversion to many Republican policy ideas- with awful caked-on orange make up, wispy hair in an awful combover, lifts in his shoes to make himself taller, and an adult diaper on his ass because he shits himself like a toddler. Now, this huckster from New York, who lived in a gold-plated Manhattan penthouse featuring literal golden shitters, ordinarily would be summarily rejected by real red blooded, hand in the dirt Americans. But here was the catch! This con artist openly hated the Blacks and the browns- it was common knowledge that he was a fan of the n-word, calling for the execution of innocent Black kids for a crime they did not commit, calling Mexicans rapists, calling the American-born president of the United States a hut-dweller from Kenya.

So, conservatives faced a conundrum. This total sham of a human being- a gold-loving penthouse-dwelling Ivy League degree holding Yankee that had bankrupted casinos, failed at selling steaks, etc.- was everything that true blue collar, eagle loving, pickup truck driving, country music (real country, not that boy band bro country bullshit) listening, American flag flying conservatives ordinarily hated. But! He hates the Blacks and the browns, calls reporters with special needs retarded, calls Hillary Clinton everything but her government name, and so on. Ladies and gentlemen of the right wing, meet your new hero and champion of the everyday middle class and lower class conservative American.

So this guy comes along, and completely shits all over real, actual, bonafide classical conservatives in the Republican Party. Just shits all over them. Humiliates them. Cucks them. Destroys them with tweets. Now, initially, this guy is reviled by the millionaire and billionaire class of the GOP. They hate him. They think he is a total charlatan, which he is. But! He can cut their taxes! Which he does.

So for most of this guy’s first term in office, the donor class grits their teeth and they bear it, thinking that once he’s gone, they can get back to good ol’ classical conservin’: making sure that billionaires and billion dollar companies don’t pay taxes, starting needless wars in the Middle East, making sure that every kindergarten classroom in America can double as a shooting range, making sure that poor brown people can’t leech off of things like SNAP, things of that nature. But what the donor class failed to understand is that somewhere along the way, they became irrelevant to the Republican Party, replaced by the hordes of the unwashed masses of rural America.

After failing spectacularly in his response to a global pandemic, and after completely decimating the American economy, this New York shyster got his ass kicked by the most vanilla, milquetoast old white guy imaginable. This guy was everything that lower and middle class Americans should like- he was one of them! His policies helped them- he provided unprecedented investment into infrastructural in rural communities, and even intentionally disproportionately tried to help communized in red states! BUT!!! His policies also tried to do things like help protect the 0.000000000001% or so of the population who are transgender and who are at high risk for suicide, and tried to do things like make sure that poor kids and families have access to food and healthcare, and for mothers to have better access to paid leave and maternal care, things of that nature. And that was one socialist, Marxist, gay ass rainbow bridge too far! Never mind the fact that his policies enabled the American economy to have one of the most prosperous periods in the history of the country! He wanted to help the transgender folks, so Scranton Joe had to go.

Well, waiting in the wings once more was the obese, makeup wearing, wispy haired, diaper shitting imbecile- this time, in the very obvious and very apparent throes of full-blown dementia- who had the entire Republican Party by the pussy because he had an iron grip on their rural voters. What few remaining classical conservatives were left- plus a cucked-out wannabe Trump in Ron DeSantis- paid but token resistance. So this diaper wearing dementia patient runs on a platform where he explicitly states policies that will ultimately have an unimaginable adverse impact on his rural, lower, and middle class voters in particular- but because the Democrats ran a Black woman, those voters had no choice but to cut off their own dicks.

So now that the obese dementia patient wins the presidency again, the entire American conservatism movement- which was hanging on by a thread for about a decade and a half as it was- completely collapsed altogether for good, and now it’s comprised of a bunch of spineless, scared, cucked, principle-less beta weenies who are actively eschewing literally everything- quite fucking literally everything- that classical conservativism stands for. Sad!

TL;DR = Black guy totally owns the GOP from 2008-2016, so they turn to an orange circus clown who ultimately destroys all remaining vestiges of American conservatism.
 
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CFordUNC said:
Here’s what happened to American conservatism: about 10 years ago, American conservatism was reeling because a Black man with a “Mooslim” middle name of Hussein who was born in Kenya even though his birth certificate states he was born in Hawaii, was in the second term of a successful presidency, and despite most of his larger agenda being constrained or outright blocked by Congress, was wildly popular amongst most everyone who doesn’t use mayonnaise as lubricant and Confederate flag condoms during sexual activity with their immediate family members. This Black man with a Muslim sounding middle name shared by a deposed Iraqi tyrant was handing conservatism its ass on a rainbow…er, silver… platter from a cultural standpoint, and the righties couldn’t handle it (trust me I know- I was one of them). So along comes an obese New York real estate shyster- himself formerly a Democrat with a previously stated aversion to many Republican policy ideas- with awful caked-on orange make up, wispy hair in an awful combover, lifts in his shoes to make himself taller, and an adult diaper on his ass because he shits himself like a toddler. Now, this huckster from New York, who lived in a gold-plates Manhattan penthouse featuring literal golden shitters, ordinarily would be summarily rejected by real red blooded, hand in the dirt Americans. But here was the catch! This con artist openly hated the Blacks and the browns- it was common knowledge that he was a fan of the n-word, calling for the execution of innocent Black kids for a crime they did not commit, calling Mexicans rapists, calling the American-born president of the United States a hut-dweller from Kenya. So, conservatives faced a conundrum. This total sham of a human being- a gold-loving penthouse-dwelling Ivy League degree holding Yankee that had bankrupted casinos, failed at selling steaks, etc.- was everything that true blue collar, eagle loving, pickup truck driving, country music (real country, not that boy band bro country bullshit) listening, American flag flying conservatives ordinarily hated. But! He hates the Blacks and the browns, calls reporters with special needs retarded, calls Hillary Clinton everything but her government name, and so on. Ladies and gentlemen of the right wing, meet your new hero and champion of the everyday middle class and lower class conservative American.

So this guy comes along, and completely shits all over real, actual, bonafide classical conservatives in the Republican Party. Just shits all over them. Humiliates them. Cucks them. Destroys them with tweets. Now, initially, this guy is reviled by the millionaire and billionaire class of the GOP. They hate him. They think he is a total charlatan, which he is. But! He can cut their taxes! Which he does.

So for most of this guy’s first term in office, the donor class grits their teeth and they bear it, thinking that once he’s gone, they can get back to good ol’ classical conservin’: making sure that billionaires and billion dollar companies don’t pay taxes, starting needless wars in the Middle East, making sure that every kindergarten classroom in America can double as a shooting range, making sure that poor brown people can’t leech off of things like SNAP, things of that nature. But what the donor class failed to understand is that somewhere along the way, they became irrelevant to the Republican Party, replaced by the hordes of the unwashed masses of rural America.

After failing spectacularly in his response to a global pandemic, and after completely decimating the American economy, this New York shyster got his ass kicked by the most vanilla, milquetoast old white guy imaginable. This guy was everything that lower and middle class Americans should like- he was one of them! His policies helped them- he provided unprecedented investment into infrastructural in rural communities, and even intentionally disproportionately tried to help communized in red states! BUT!!! His policies also tried to do things like help protect the 0.000000000001% or so of the population who are transgender and who are at high risk for suicide, and tried to do things like make sure that poor kids and families have access to food and healthcare, and for mothers to have better access to paid leave and maternal care, things of that nature. And that was one socialist, Marxist, gay ass rainbow bridge too far! Never mind the fact that his policies enabled the American economy to have one of the most prosperous periods in the history of the country! He wanted to help the transgender folks, so Scranton Joe had to go.

Well, waiting in the wings once more was the obese, makeup wearing, wispy haired, diaper shitting imbecile- this time, in the very obvious and very apparent throes of full-blown dementia- who had the entire Republican Party by the pussy because he had an iron grip on their rural voters. What few remaining classical conservatives were left- plus a cucked-out wannabe Trump in Ron DeSantis- paid but token resistance. So this diaper wearing dementia patient runs on a platform where he explicitly states policies that will ultimately have an unimaginable adverse impact on his rural, lower, and middle class voters in particular- but because the Democrats ran a Black woman, those voters had no choice but to cut off their own dicks.

So now that the obese dementia patient wins the presidency again, the entire American conservatism movement- which was hanging on by a thread for about a decade and a half as it was- completely collapsed altogether for good, and now it’s comprised of a bunch of spineless, scared, cucked, principle-less beta weenies who are actively eschewing literally everything- quite fucking literally everything- that classical conservativism stands for. Sad!

TL;DR = Black guy totally owns the GOP from 2008-2016, so they turn to an orange circus clown who ultimately destroys all remaining vestiges of American conservatism.
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Hey, if your hero gets off to golden showers, shouldn’t you enjoy getting pissed on as well?
 
CFordUNC said:
Here’s what happened to American conservatism: about 10 years ago, American conservatism was reeling because a Black man with a “Mooslim” middle name of Hussein who was born in Kenya even though his birth certificate states he was born in Hawaii, was in the second term of a successful presidency, and despite most of his larger agenda being constrained or outright blocked by Congress, was wildly popular amongst most everyone who doesn’t use mayonnaise as lubricant and Confederate flag condoms during sexual activity with their immediate family members. This Black man with a Muslim sounding middle name shared by a deposed Iraqi tyrant was handing conservatism its ass on a rainbow…er, silver… platter from a cultural standpoint, and the righties couldn’t handle it (trust me I know- I was one of them). So along comes an obese New York real estate shyster- himself formerly a Democrat with a previously stated aversion to many Republican policy ideas- with awful caked-on orange make up, wispy hair in an awful combover, lifts in his shoes to make himself taller, and an adult diaper on his ass because he shits himself like a toddler. Now, this huckster from New York, who lived in a gold-plates Manhattan penthouse featuring literal golden shitters, ordinarily would be summarily rejected by real red blooded, hand in the dirt Americans. But here was the catch! This con artist openly hated the Blacks and the browns- it was common knowledge that he was a fan of the n-word, calling for the execution of innocent Black kids for a crime they did not commit, calling Mexicans rapists, calling the American-born president of the United States a hut-dweller from Kenya. So, conservatives faced a conundrum. This total sham of a human being- a gold-loving penthouse-dwelling Ivy League degree holding Yankee that had bankrupted casinos, failed at selling steaks, etc.- was everything that true blue collar, eagle loving, pickup truck driving, country music (real country, not that boy band bro country bullshit) listening, American flag flying conservatives ordinarily hated. But! He hates the Blacks and the browns, calls reporters with special needs retarded, calls Hillary Clinton everything but her government name, and so on. Ladies and gentlemen of the right wing, meet your new hero and champion of the everyday middle class and lower class conservative American.

So this guy comes along, and completely shits all over real, actual, bonafide classical conservatives in the Republican Party. Just shits all over them. Humiliates them. Cucks them. Destroys them with tweets. Now, initially, this guy is reviled by the millionaire and billionaire class of the GOP. They hate him. They think he is a total charlatan, which he is. But! He can cut their taxes! Which he does.

So for most of this guy’s first term in office, the donor class grits their teeth and they bear it, thinking that once he’s gone, they can get back to good ol’ classical conservin’: making sure that billionaires and billion dollar companies don’t pay taxes, starting needless wars in the Middle East, making sure that every kindergarten classroom in America can double as a shooting range, making sure that poor brown people can’t leech off of things like SNAP, things of that nature. But what the donor class failed to understand is that somewhere along the way, they became irrelevant to the Republican Party, replaced by the hordes of the unwashed masses of rural America.

After failing spectacularly in his response to a global pandemic, and after completely decimating the American economy, this New York shyster got his ass kicked by the most vanilla, milquetoast old white guy imaginable. This guy was everything that lower and middle class Americans should like- he was one of them! His policies helped them- he provided unprecedented investment into infrastructural in rural communities, and even intentionally disproportionately tried to help communized in red states! BUT!!! His policies also tried to do things like help protect the 0.000000000001% or so of the population who are transgender and who are at high risk for suicide, and tried to do things like make sure that poor kids and families have access to food and healthcare, and for mothers to have better access to paid leave and maternal care, things of that nature. And that was one socialist, Marxist, gay ass rainbow bridge too far! Never mind the fact that his policies enabled the American economy to have one of the most prosperous periods in the history of the country! He wanted to help the transgender folks, so Scranton Joe had to go.

Well, waiting in the wings once more was the obese, makeup wearing, wispy haired, diaper shitting imbecile- this time, in the very obvious and very apparent throes of full-blown dementia- who had the entire Republican Party by the pussy because he had an iron grip on their rural voters. What few remaining classical conservatives were left- plus a cucked-out wannabe Trump in Ron DeSantis- paid but token resistance. So this diaper wearing dementia patient runs on a platform where he explicitly states policies that will ultimately have an unimaginable adverse impact on his rural, lower, and middle class voters in particular- but because the Democrats ran a Black woman, those voters had no choice but to cut off their own dicks.

So now that the obese dementia patient wins the presidency again, the entire American conservatism movement- which was hanging on by a thread for about a decade and a half as it was- completely collapsed altogether for good, and now it’s comprised of a bunch of spineless, scared, cucked, principle-less beta weenies who are actively eschewing literally everything- quite fucking literally everything- that classical conservativism stands for. Sad!

TL;DR = Black guy totally owns the GOP from 2008-2016, so they turn to an orange circus clown who ultimately destroys all remaining vestiges of American conservatism.
Click to expand...
While I agree with what you have stated.

The heritage foundation and other ultra conservative white Christian nationalist have been slow fucking the conservative movement since Reagan.

In 1979, at a trustees' meeting of the Heritage Foundation, Jack Eckerd, former head of the General Services Administration in the Ford administration, suggested that the foundation draw up a conservative plan of action for the next incoming presidential administration in January 1981. Robert Krieble proposed that Heritage produce a manual to help policymakers "cut the size of government and manage it more effectively".<a href="Mandate for Leadership - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>

Mandate for Leadership - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
CFordUNC said:
Here’s what happened to American conservatism: about 10 years ago, American conservatism was reeling because a Black man with a “Mooslim” middle name of Hussein who was born in Kenya even though his birth certificate states he was born in Hawaii, was in the second term of a successful presidency, and despite most of his larger agenda being constrained or outright blocked by Congress, was wildly popular amongst most everyone who doesn’t use mayonnaise as lubricant and Confederate flag condoms during sexual activity with their immediate family members. This Black man with a Muslim sounding middle name shared by a deposed Iraqi tyrant was handing conservatism its ass on a rainbow…er, silver… platter from a cultural standpoint, and the righties couldn’t handle it (trust me I know- I was one of them).

So along comes an obese New York real estate shyster- himself formerly a Democrat with a previously stated aversion to many Republican policy ideas- with awful caked-on orange make up, wispy hair in an awful combover, lifts in his shoes to make himself taller, and an adult diaper on his ass because he shits himself like a toddler. Now, this huckster from New York, who lived in a gold-plated Manhattan penthouse featuring literal golden shitters, ordinarily would be summarily rejected by real red blooded, hand in the dirt Americans. But here was the catch! This con artist openly hated the Blacks and the browns- it was common knowledge that he was a fan of the n-word, calling for the execution of innocent Black kids for a crime they did not commit, calling Mexicans rapists, calling the American-born president of the United States a hut-dweller from Kenya.

So, conservatives faced a conundrum. This total sham of a human being- a gold-loving penthouse-dwelling Ivy League degree holding Yankee that had bankrupted casinos, failed at selling steaks, etc.- was everything that true blue collar, eagle loving, pickup truck driving, country music (real country, not that boy band bro country bullshit) listening, American flag flying conservatives ordinarily hated. But! He hates the Blacks and the browns, calls reporters with special needs retarded, calls Hillary Clinton everything but her government name, and so on. Ladies and gentlemen of the right wing, meet your new hero and champion of the everyday middle class and lower class conservative American.

So this guy comes along, and completely shits all over real, actual, bonafide classical conservatives in the Republican Party. Just shits all over them. Humiliates them. Cucks them. Destroys them with tweets. Now, initially, this guy is reviled by the millionaire and billionaire class of the GOP. They hate him. They think he is a total charlatan, which he is. But! He can cut their taxes! Which he does.

So for most of this guy’s first term in office, the donor class grits their teeth and they bear it, thinking that once he’s gone, they can get back to good ol’ classical conservin’: making sure that billionaires and billion dollar companies don’t pay taxes, starting needless wars in the Middle East, making sure that every kindergarten classroom in America can double as a shooting range, making sure that poor brown people can’t leech off of things like SNAP, things of that nature. But what the donor class failed to understand is that somewhere along the way, they became irrelevant to the Republican Party, replaced by the hordes of the unwashed masses of rural America.

After failing spectacularly in his response to a global pandemic, and after completely decimating the American economy, this New York shyster got his ass kicked by the most vanilla, milquetoast old white guy imaginable. This guy was everything that lower and middle class Americans should like- he was one of them! His policies helped them- he provided unprecedented investment into infrastructural in rural communities, and even intentionally disproportionately tried to help communized in red states! BUT!!! His policies also tried to do things like help protect the 0.000000000001% or so of the population who are transgender and who are at high risk for suicide, and tried to do things like make sure that poor kids and families have access to food and healthcare, and for mothers to have better access to paid leave and maternal care, things of that nature. And that was one socialist, Marxist, gay ass rainbow bridge too far! Never mind the fact that his policies enabled the American economy to have one of the most prosperous periods in the history of the country! He wanted to help the transgender folks, so Scranton Joe had to go.

Well, waiting in the wings once more was the obese, makeup wearing, wispy haired, diaper shitting imbecile- this time, in the very obvious and very apparent throes of full-blown dementia- who had the entire Republican Party by the pussy because he had an iron grip on their rural voters. What few remaining classical conservatives were left- plus a cucked-out wannabe Trump in Ron DeSantis- paid but token resistance. So this diaper wearing dementia patient runs on a platform where he explicitly states policies that will ultimately have an unimaginable adverse impact on his rural, lower, and middle class voters in particular- but because the Democrats ran a Black woman, those voters had no choice but to cut off their own dicks.

So now that the obese dementia patient wins the presidency again, the entire American conservatism movement- which was hanging on by a thread for about a decade and a half as it was- completely collapsed altogether for good, and now it’s comprised of a bunch of spineless, scared, cucked, principle-less beta weenies who are actively eschewing literally everything- quite fucking literally everything- that classical conservativism stands for. Sad!

TL;DR = Black guy totally owns the GOP from 2008-2016, so they turn to an orange circus clown who ultimately destroys all remaining vestiges of American conservatism.
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Agree with every word. Nailed it. The only thing I would change is the “10 years ago”… I think it happened in 2008… that’s when the shit started to go squirrelly for the GOP. They went bat shit crazy with a black man in the White House. And the shit just got crazier from then on.
 
Centerpiece said:
Agree with every word. Nailed it. The only thing I would change is the “10 years ago”… I think it happened in 2008… that’s when the shit started to go squirrelly for the GOP. They went bat shit crazy with a black man in the White House. And the shit just got crazier from then on.
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Also can't leave out the crucial role of the right-wing media propaganda machine in keeping the right-wing echo chamber In a state of perpetual grievance, intolerance, and resentment.
 
Exactly. It's all about racism, bigotry, greed and cruelty. It has always been there, but when Obama was elected twice it just ramped it all up by a thousand. The racists and bigots went nuts, scared of losing their privilege of simply being a straight white Christian. They couldn't understand it, and so they feared it, and feared losing their place in society when treating people different than them equally became an actual movement in society. To them treating anyone equally that doesn't live in the bubble world they want is "woke." So they were fine with electing a horrible president and even more horrible person in Trump. He was the extreme candidate they wanted, because they would rather burn it all down than have immigrants, people of color, non-Christians, gays, and trans people be seen as equal to them. Of course, the greedy rich folks just go along with it because all they care about is making more money.
 
Maybe this has been happening for a long time and I just haven’t seen it but I’m seeing a TON of “conservatives” making the argument we are not a democracy, democracy is a stupid form of government, and we should distance ourselves from the term. Trust me, I understand the philosophical nuances of our constitutional system, but this strikes me as a massively dangerous argument in the hands of today’s resident autocrats. Anyone else seeing a huge uptick in this language?
 
lawtig02 said:
Maybe this has been happening for a long time and I just haven’t seen it but I’m seeing a TON of “conservatives” making the argument we are not a democracy, democracy is a stupid form of government, and we should distance ourselves from the term. Trust me, I understand the philosophical nuances of our constitutional system, but this strikes me as a massively dangerous argument in the hands of today’s resident autocrats. Anyone else seeing a huge uptick in this language?
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They'll usually say we're a 'Republic' not a democracy, as if that were some sort of knock down argument. Republics usually have a representative democracy, as the USA has always had, but apparently the new conservatives think that a Republic led by an meatheaded autocrat is preferable.
 
Bobfripp said:
They'll usually say we're a 'Republic' not a democracy, as if that were some sort of knock down argument. Republics usually have a representative democracy, as the USA has always had, but apparently the new conservatives think that a Republic led by an meatheaded autocrat is preferable.
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Yeah that’s the sense I’m getting. They’re actively rooting for late-stage Rome.
 
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