Where do we go from here?

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CFordUNC said:
So I'm definitely going to reveal my ignorance of how elections work here, but wouldn't we just theoretically need free and fair elections to work in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and perhaps Arizona and North Carolina, all of which will have Democratic governors? Obviously if we don't have free and fair elections in the other 45 states, we have unfathomably big problems, but I just mean that strictly from a election integrity standpoint, what could be done to rig elections in those swing states where a Democratic governor presides?
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It's not about rigging them per se, as in fucking with the tabulation machines. It's more subtle. Maybe they put troops at certain polling locations to depress turnout there, because voting ain't worth getting into a fight with the army. Or they bring criminal charges against Bluesky to shutter it during the election period, thus boosting Xitter. Or close Dem polling locations under pretext of a federal statute and require Dems to travel to other areas to vote. Or direct the USPS to lose ballots from certain zip codes.

Or they concoct BS criminal charges against Dem candidates.

Think of the election as a craps game. If the house loads the dice, it doesn't need to prevent anyone from rolling.
 
CFordUNC said:
Thought this was a really interesting read and very thought-provoking.

America doesn't really have a working class: Why class politics is unlikely to succeed where identity politics failed.​


www.noahpinion.blog

America doesn't really have a working class

Why class politics is unlikely to succeed where identity politics failed.
www.noahpinion.blog www.noahpinion.blog
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Thanks. That captures a lot of what I've been feeling and gives me some angles to examine.

I think ultimately we going to reach a point where population growth is unnecessary for either protection, production or prosperity because of automation and computerization. Some people are going to be left behind and we might end up looking at some sort of basic minimum income and housing for those. Going to be interesting to see where that takes us.
 
CFordUNC said:
Thought this was a really interesting read and very thought-provoking.

America doesn't really have a working class: Why class politics is unlikely to succeed where identity politics failed.​


www.noahpinion.blog

America doesn't really have a working class

Why class politics is unlikely to succeed where identity politics failed.
www.noahpinion.blog www.noahpinion.blog
Click to expand...
Interesting read, though it will surprise no one that I disagree with the conclusion.

I tend to agree with super that all politics are identity politics now. Identity politics haven’t failed, more so that Democrats have wrapped themselves in the wrong identities. Identities that many people across the country see as counter to their own.

That is, being working class (or someone who works for a living, however you want to phrase it) is an identity in and of itself. It is an extremely powerful identity and one that unites people across racial and gender lines. We’ve seen this work throughout American history in other political movements.
 
Paine said:
Interesting read, though it will surprise no one that I disagree with the conclusion.

I tend to agree with super that all politics are identity politics now. Identity politics haven’t failed, more so that Democrats have wrapped themselves in the wrong identities. Identities that many people across the country see as counter to their own.

That is, being working class (or someone who works for a living, however you want to phrase it) is an identity in and of itself. It is an extremely powerful identity and one that unites people across racial and gender lines. We’ve seen this work throughout American history in other political movements.
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You know I appreciate your perspective and point of view!
 
CFordUNC said:
You know I appreciate your perspective and point of view!
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Of course! I came here to post this article from the Times, which is tangentially related.

www.nytimes.com

Dan Osborn Wants to Help the Working Class Run for Office

Mr. Osborn, the industrial mechanic who turned a long-shot Senate bid in red Nebraska into an unexpectedly tight race, is starting a PAC aimed at recruiting more blue-collar candidates like himself.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
Paine said:
Of course! I came here to post this article from the Times, which is tangentially related.

www.nytimes.com

Dan Osborn Wants to Help the Working Class Run for Office

Mr. Osborn, the industrial mechanic who turned a long-shot Senate bid in red Nebraska into an unexpectedly tight race, is starting a PAC aimed at recruiting more blue-collar candidates like himself.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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“‘Who’s the one doing the dividing here?’ Mr. Osborn asked in an interview on Monday. ‘I think it’s the people who are laughing all the way to the bank while us common folk live paycheck to paycheck.’

…Mainly, though, his biggest calling card was his genuine working-class identity and a penchant for listening. It wasn’t a particularly substantive campaign — he still struggles to articulate the policies that distinguished him from Republicans and Democrats — but it was one that avoided the impression that many Democrats leave, that in appealing to working-class voters, they talk down to them.”
 
Paine said:
“‘Who’s the one doing the dividing here?’ Mr. Osborn asked in an interview on Monday. ‘I think it’s the people who are laughing all the way to the bank while us common folk live paycheck to paycheck.’

…Mainly, though, his biggest calling card was his genuine working-class identity and a penchant for listening. It wasn’t a particularly substantive campaign — he still struggles to articulate the policies that distinguished him from Republicans and Democrats — but it was one that avoided the impression that many Democrats leave, that in appealing to working-class voters, they talk down to them.”
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To be fair, he probably avoided that impression just by running as an independent and not a democrat
 
aGDevil2k said:
It implies white collar folks don't work
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Not necessarily. It allows people to map themselves onto the notion of what a worker is. I’m a white collar worker but still consider myself working class because of the kind of money I make. Working class isn’t just middle-aged white pipe fitters.
 
With the whole "working class" thing, I will just add that I think that one tough thing for some educated liberals is that we're constantly criticized for talking down to and/or not engaging with or understanding working-class folks but working-class folks are never criticized for talking down to and/or not engaging with or understanding us. I have heard so much vitriol from "working-class" people about urban "elites" (by which they generally appear to mean people with advanced degrees, or in some cases pretty much any college degree). They demean our education, and education generally, as brainwashing and propaganda. They call our values "woke" and "virtue signaling." They call their own small towns the "real" America and demean the jobs we do as not real or valuable because they don't involve physically growing food or building things or manufacturing a product.

I don't mean for this to be some sad "woe is me" liberal rant. I'm not suggesting that I or people like me are victimized or downtrodden or whatever. It is just frustrating to be constantly told that it is our fault for not engaging with this other group of people when that group of people is just as responsible for not engaging with us. Especially when I'm confident that the average educated liberal has done more to *try* to understand working-class people (whether in a misguided fashion or not) than the other way around.
 
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