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Where do we go from here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rodoheel
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  • Politics 
Paine said:
Strongly disagree. I think it puts the Dems in a much stronger position if Biden announces he’s a one-term prez. It would’ve allowed time for our deep bench to mount their own campaigns, and we could’ve seen whose ideas came out on top.
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This strategy has a very poor track record. Competitive primaries are not great for winning elections. There was no way for the Dem nominee to separate from Biden. That just doesn't happen. Also, if the Dem candidate did manage to separate from Biden, how is that helpful? "Vote for this Dem, not the Dem you voted for four years ago, and I promise not to make the same mistakes" is not a winning message.

The problem with the "separate from the incumbent" approach is that one would imagine the separation to occur on an issue seen as weak for Biden. Like immigration. Great -- now the media will start talking about immigration non-stop, which is what the Dems don't want to happen. The tension between the president's views and the candidate's views would remain salient in the media for the whole campaign, because that's what the media does.

It's easy to come up with good plans so long as you don't ask a follow-up question about what would happen in response.
 
superrific said:
This strategy has a very poor track record. Competitive primaries are not great for winning elections. There was no way for the Dem nominee to separate from Biden. That just doesn't happen. Also, if the Dem candidate did manage to separate from Biden, how is that helpful? "Vote for this Dem, not the Dem you voted for four years ago, and I promise not to make the same mistakes" is not a winning message.

The problem with the "separate from the incumbent" approach is that one would imagine the separation to occur on an issue seen as weak for Biden. Like immigration. Great -- now the media will start talking about immigration non-stop, which is what the Dems don't want to happen. The tension between the president's views and the candidate's views would remain salient in the media for the whole campaign, because that's what the media does.

It's easy to come up with good plans so long as you don't ask a follow-up question about what would happen in response.
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I understand the strategy has a poor track record. That’s because presidents as unpopular as Biden generally aren’t running for reelection. His age was unprecedented.
 
Paine said:
I understand the strategy has a poor track record. That’s because presidents as unpopular as Biden generally aren’t running for reelection. His age was unprecedented.
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I simply don't think there was a Dem candidate who was going to win this cycle, given what we just saw.

In voters minds, the world was great under Trump; it became shitty under Biden. Maybe it was the economy, maybe it was "the border", maybe other things. But as long as that was the perception, and people voted on that perception, I just don't know what could have been done.

What has to happen is for people to be reminded of just how bad Trump was/will be. This is a great test case. The economy is strong now, at least per metrics. When the economy tanks, it's going to be Trump's fault and people will see that, I think.

Then the key is for Dems to never let Americans forget. We made a big mistake when we stopped talking about the financial crisis. We should have run for a decade on "look at what happened last time the GOP was in control." If what we think will happen happens, then Dems need to message this every day for an eternity. Every day. Not during campaigns only.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I do understand what politics is now versus what it has been. Politics now is nothing more than a contest to entertain the masses. It is a reflection of our society's antipathy toward anything requiring commitment and effort. We have become the Roman Empire putting on spectacles to entertain the masses just enough to keep Caesar on the throne.

What you see in me now is the disillusionment of someone who has spent their entire adult life watching us devolve from a functioning democracy into an idiocracy.

Politics used to be policy. Now it is unserious grandstanding and one-liners.

And it's wonderful that you think policy can reach everyday voters. I just don't any longer. Did the ACA reach them? It has done more for the common man than any legislation since the New Deal and it's still detested by a majority of Americans simply because of who championed it.
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superrific said:
I simply don't think there was a Dem candidate who was going to win this cycle, given what we just saw.

In voters minds, the world was great under Trump; it became shitty under Biden. Maybe it was the economy, maybe it was "the border", maybe other things. But as long as that was the perception, and people voted on that perception, I just don't know what could have been done.

What has to happen is for people to be reminded of just how bad Trump was/will be. This is a great test case. The economy is strong now, at least per metrics. When the economy tanks, it's going to be Trump's fault and people will see that, I think.

Then the key is for Dems to never let Americans forget. We made a big mistake when we stopped talking about the financial crisis. We should have run for a decade on "look at what happened last time the GOP was in control." If what we think will happen happens, then Dems need to message this every day for an eternity. Every day. Not during campaigns only.
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"look at what happened last time the GOP was in control."

You forgot....

*...and didn't undo what Democrats (Clinton) had started."
 
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wmheel1287 said:
The ONLY path forward that I see to winning for Democrats is to build a cult of personality in the same way that Republicans have built around Trump. Policy...even enormously popular and successful policy will not dent that.
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Absolutely not, the Democrats (and country) would be better off not perpetuating the culture war nonsense. I'd rather the Democrats cut off all the party's nonsense interest groups and just focus solely on governance with BORING candidates who are smart and trustworthy to independents because there are FAR more of them these days.

That's how the Democrats win back power, this country is better off if the two parties are competing for the C-Span viewer's vote instead of the Social Media vote.
 
AlbionAmerican said:
Absolutely not, the Democrats (and country) would be better off not perpetuating the culture war nonsense. I'd rather the Democrats cut off all the party's nonsense interest groups and just focus solely on governance with BORING candidates who are smart and trustworthy to independents because there are FAR more of them these days.

That's how the Democrats win back power, this country is better off if the two parties are competing for the C-Span viewer's vote instead of the Social Media vote.
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The democrats will win back power because the republican party is not a serious governing party. They thrive on visceral culture war issues, but don't have a governing plan outside of plutocracy. Unfortunately, we have millions in the middle who fall for Lucy holding the football every few years.
 
AlbionAmerican said:
Absolutely not, the Democrats (and country) would be better off not perpetuating the culture war nonsense. I'd rather the Democrats cut off all the party's nonsense interest groups and just focus solely on governance with BORING candidates who are smart and trustworthy to independents because there are FAR more of them these days.

That's how the Democrats win back power, this country is better off if the two parties are competing for the C-Span viewer's vote instead of the Social Media vote.
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We are talking about two different things. You're talking about how the country would be better off. I'm talking about how to get elected.

The country is already lost when it comes to appealing to governance and policy. It is an idiocracy. We aren't coming back from that. So Dems will either embrace that to get elected or they won't win.

I wish with all my being that we were a nation who valued substance over style but we just are not.
 
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A likeable, but rather milquetoast, traditional democratic candidate just crushed the popular vote record in 2020.

I believe that Democrats looking for a dramatic change to win the presidency are overthinking things.
 
wmheel1287 said:
We are talking about twi different things. You're talking about how the country would be better off. I'm talking about how to get elected.

The country is already lost when it comes to appealing to governance and policy. It is an idiocracy. We aren't coming back from that. So Dems will either embrace that to get elected or they won't win.
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We've been changing people's lives for the better even when we're not winning. That means more to me. I'm a bit older so I'm a bit more retrospective but I'd rather lose the election and stand for what I think right. It's more important that the country is better off. I might well be dead in 5 years. My kids and grandkids won't. I don't need to win now if they win in the long run. I don't see making the division and animosity greater as winning for anybody except our enemies.
 
finesse said:
We've been changing people's lives for the better even when we're not winning. That means more to me. I'm a bit older so I'm a bit more retrospective but I'd rather lose the election and stand for what I think right. It's more important that the country is better off. I might well be dead in 5 years. My kids and grandkids won't. I don't need to win now if they win in the long run. I don't see making the division and animosity greater as winning for anybody except our enemies.
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Unfortunately we can't do as much if we don't win elections.

And time has to be spent fighting or ondooing the stupidity.
 
finesse said:
We've been changing people's lives for the better even when we're not winning. That means more to me. I'm a bit older so I'm a bit more retrospective but I'd rather lose the election and stand for what I think right. It's more important that the country is better off. I might well be dead in 5 years. My kids and grandkids won't. I don't need to win now if they win in the long run. I don't see making the division and animosity greater as winning for anybody except our enemies.
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And we are in a new environment where nothing but power will work to reap any rewards. It's sickening but true.

Think of it...literally one state house representative now has more power than the Governor of NC. Lose that one NC house election and literally none of the Governor, Attorney General, State SUPER, Lt Gov matter.

Dems must win elections by hook or crook to have any chance to save your grandchildren.
 
UNCatTech said:
Unfortunately we can't do as much if we don't win elections.

And time has to be spent fighting or ondooing the stupidity.
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I know but it's like tacking into a head wind. Sometimes you can't head directly where you want to. Getting there is what's important. We've come a long way from the 50s I remember. I know we have a long way to go but as long as the human race is learning and growing we always will. It's when we think we're there that we have a problem.
 
Where do we go from here? Well, the next election (we hope) is in two years. Big picture messaging will have to wait four years for the new messenger. In the next two years, Democrats are strictly out of power so there's not much going anywhere.

If Trump screws up, then that's the message. If he doesn't screw up......well the election in two years won't matter.

So while we wait, I suggest a question message for voters: just ask "how's that Trump clown car working for you?" When the screw ups pile up, the message will sink in.
 
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