Where do we go from here?

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Paine said:
Maybe should’ve said something along the lines of “I mean this genuinely” instead of “all due respect.” It was a genuine question. I just can’t understand following a politics board and actively posting on it while simultaneously thinking voters are just too dumb/too far gone/too racist/too sexist or whatever. It doesn’t logically compute.

Politics is about convincing the voters that we have and winning power. If you don’t think that’s possible, what’s the point?
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When I hear something such as, “I mean this genuinely……,” I think the speaker is a liar.

Just state your opinion.
 
Paine said:
I don’t think what you’re saying is as disconnected from what I’m saying as you’re making it out to be. Part of crafting a team that people want to cheer for is advocating for and pushing forth easily understood policy proposals. To say that it doesn’t matter at all is silly.
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And im saying that the policy proposals don't matter so long as they make the audience feel good. Trump’s policy proposals are literally to end the American economy.

The real problem as I see it is finding someone willing to be simultaneously good and well meaning while lying without compunction toward the goal of being elected. Generally those personality traits don't pair well.
 
wmheel1287 said:
And im saying that the policy proposals don't matter so long as they make the audience feel good. Trump’s policy proposals are literally to end the American economy.

The real problem as I see it is finding someone willing to be simultaneously good and well meaning while lying without computation toward the goal of being elected. Generally those personality traits don't pair well.
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So maybe we should put forth policies that make people feel good? All I’ve been told by liberals for my entire political life is that left wing policy proposals shouldn’t be pressed because they’re unrealistic and people will never vote for them.

Now, a lot of the same people are saying policy doesn’t matter at all and people just want to feel good.

Not saying you’re someone who said the latter, but I’ve noticed a considerable overlap in those opinions.
 
Paine said:
So maybe we should put forth policies that make people feel good? All I’ve been told by liberals for my entire political life is that left wing policy proposals shouldn’t be pressed because they’re unrealistic and people will never vote for them.

Now, a lot of the same people are saying policy doesn’t matter at all and people just want to feel good.

Not saying you’re someone who said the latter, but I’ve noticed a considerable overlap in those opinions.
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Correct...so now you've got to find a way to not lose people like me who think leftists policy proposals are as much bunk as Trump’s.

Find a way to convince me that you're just running the show for those who want it but you won't run us into the ditch economically with ideas that are poorly conceived.

That's the needle that has to be threaded.
 
Bobfripp said:
This is crazy talk.
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It’s really not. He said he would be a one term president and then reneged on that, apparently to the shock of people even within the White House. We have reporting that internal polling had Biden down 400 electoral votes to Trump and his team still wanted him to stay in.

It was incredibly hubristic to think we could just slip Biden by the public when he was obviously frail and less than lucid, not to mention massively unpopular.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Correct...so now you've got to find a way to not lose people like me who think leftists policy proposals are as much bunk as Trump’s.

Find a way to convince me that you're just running the show for those who want it but you won't run us into the ditch economically with ideas that are poorly conceived.

That's the needle that has to be threaded.
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Okay, that’s an actual conversation that can be had in the coming weeks.
 
Paine said:
We can agree to disagree. Democrats beat Trump with a competitive primary IMO.
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Are you assuming the Biden would have or should have withdrawn? If he didn't, and with him leading us to the best post pandemic recovery of the G7, you'd have to both wonder why he would and what affect that might have on the recovery, who do you think would have beat him out?
 
finesse said:
Are you assuming the Biden would have or should have withdrawn? If he didn't, and with him leading us to the best post pandemic recovery of the G7, you'd have to both wonder why he would and what affect that might have on the recovery, who do you think would have beat him out?
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I’m assuming that Biden announces at the beginning he’s a one term president and we have a normal Democratic primary in 2023-2024, not some weird flash primary like Pelosi wanted to do.

It would’ve been easier for another Democrat to attach themselves to the positive parts of Biden’s presidency while distancing themselves from the unpopular parts in ways that Harris was unable to do.
 
I think that would have been a sure fire way for him to have never been taken seriously as a president. I don't see that being good for the party or country. He'd have probably lost if he ran on it and people would have felt betrayed if he announced it just after election.
 
finesse said:
I think that would have been a sure fire way for him to have never been taken seriously as a president. I don't see that being good for the party or country. He'd have probably lost if he ran on it and people would have felt betrayed if he announced it just after election.
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Strongly disagree. I think it puts the Dems in a much stronger position if Biden announces he’s a one-term prez. It would’ve allowed time for our deep bench to mount their own campaigns, and we could’ve seen whose ideas came out on top.

Again, Biden heavily insinuated during the campaign that he would be a one-term “bridge” to the next generation of Democratic leadership. A lot of people voted for him on this premise. I don’t think people would’ve felt some great betrayal. He could’ve used all his energy to make a difference in 4 years and then handed it off.
 
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I didn't get those insinuations but, in fairness, I wasn't likely to. I do think that I would have gotten some of that if it was an actual subtext. I'm not buying that a lot of of people voted for him on that premise. They might have with that hope, but those are not the same.
 
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finesse said:
I didn't get those insinuations but, in fairness, I wasn't likely to. I do think that I would have gotten some of that it it was an actual subtext. I'm not buying that a lot of of people voted for him on that premise. They might have with that hope, but those are not the same.
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Fair enough. There is debate about it. It was a shrewd political move by Biden to leave it ambiguous. Didn’t end up paying off in the end.

 
Paine said:
Okay, so you’re just arguing semantics now. My opinion is clear.
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It’s not semantics.

I was taught in 9th grade to not preface opinions with, “I think….” or “to be honest” or “I genuinely….”

You’re writing or speaking…..state your opinion…..

And, if you say something like, “To be honest…..,” I’m convinced you’re lying.
 
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