Where do we go from here?

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Paine said:
Stevenson was a character witness for Hiss in 49 (they worked together in the AAA). Even though Stevenson really didn’t seem to know Hiss well. Of course this deposition was used against Stevenson when the Hiss stuff really kicked off.

People tried to tar Roosevelt with the soft on communism stuff, but Stevenson was the prototype for this type of Republican campaign tactic.

McCarthy even had a line when campaigning for Ike and Dick in 1952 where he said “Alger…I mean Adlai.”

Point being: yes, the Republican playbook of calling liberals soft (on communism, crime, whatever) and portraying them as elitist has been around for a while. The Democrats are able to get away from this by running people who buck this label/picture and by campaigning on issues that do the same, IMO.
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Yeah and with nothing even approaching an unbiased media anymore, the side that tells the most lies fastest profit most. The message hasn't changed nearly as much as the delivery system. It's still more about the 'pubs making people scared and longing for the better days that never existed.
 
Paine said:
The party’s leadership is captive to an educated consultant class and nonprofit identity-focused issue world.

Hillary Clinton telling Bernie Sanders that breaking up the big banks won’t solve racism is the encapsulation of this dynamic.
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I assume "identity-focused issue world" is a reference to identity politics. I think there's a significant amount of overlap between the former and latter groups you mention, but it certainly appears, based on post election polling, that identity politics was/is an anchor on the Democratic Party.

The question is whether or not the party can (or wants to) distance themselves from that portion of the party.

I know it's common to label all Trump voters as the uneducated, blindly allegiant masses. I believe a lot of the Trump support came in the form of votes against the ideals of the Left, which has infected the Democratic party. Biden was viewed as a traditional Democrat and did a good job of distancing himself from the Left.....and he kicked the shit out of Trump. Kamala was never able to do it. I'm not sure she even tried.
 
Paine said:
Identity politics isn’t exclusively associated with the left IMO.

There are several factions within the Democratic Party that I think can be roughly broken down as follows.

1. Non woke leftists (Bernie)
2. Woke leftists (activist types)
3. Woke moderates (Clinton, Harris)
4. Non woke moderates (Biden)

This is why simple discussions of left and right in the Democratic Party don’t really make sense. There is overlap between these groups on the margins of course. I tend to think that the word “woke” does have a meaning, though mine may not match the definition a lot of right-wingers have.

Right now a lot of woke moderates are suddenly acting like it was the identity politics (that they peddled) that is causing Dem losses. The reality is, it’s part woke and part lack of emphasis on working people and pocketbook economics.

The woke moderates are more than happen throw left economics under the bus by casting the entire left under the “woke” umbrella. It’s ahistorical though.
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I agree that identity politics is not unique to the Democratic party. To a point, we all engage in identity politics in our everyday lives. I do think that a decent portion of the identity politics we see in the Republican party is the result of, and reaction to, identity politics in the Democratic party...but that's a different discussion.

"Woke", at least on the right, is a cover-all term for most anything related to social activism that the Republican party doesn't like. Trans activism, DEI, progressive legal concepts....you can throw affirmative action in there. To varying degrees, those things are interwoven with identity politics and seem to be what voters are pushing back against.
 
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Well after saying for months and months that he was going to get grocery prices down, Trump now says he can't do that.

So, looks to me like "go from here" for the democrats is just speak to people across the country "we get it, and we will do xyz, but we wont lie to your face like they just did" and start saying it now all the way thru 2026 and 28
 
aGDevil2k said:
Well after saying for months and months that he was going to get grocery prices down, Trump now says he can't do that.

So, looks to me like "go from here" for the democrats is just speak to people across the country "we get it, and we will do xyz, but we wont lie to your face like they just did" and start saying it now all the way thru 2026 and 28
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I think many people would prefer to be lied to.
 
aGDevil2k said:
Well after saying for months and months that he was going to get grocery prices down, Trump now says he can't do that.

So, looks to me like "go from here" for the democrats is just speak to people across the country "we get it, and we will do xyz, but we wont lie to your face like they just did" and start saying it now all the way thru 2026 and 28
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Biden’s fine. We don’t know what you’re talking about.
 
My Deddy (born 1916) was a New Dealer from rural NC and actually more of an Eleonor than a Franklin Delano Roosevelt Democrat. He always said that Adlai Stevenson was the best man he ever saw run for president that never won.
 
Paine said:
cup.columbia.edu

Rust Belt Union Blues | Columbia University Press

In the heyday of American labor, the influence of local unions extended far beyond the workplace. Unions were embedded in tight-knit communities, touching ne... | CUP
cup.columbia.edu cup.columbia.edu

Finally got my hands on this book for the holiday. Good read so far.

“Lainey Newman and Theda Skocpol provide timely insight into the relationship between the decline of unions and the shift of working-class voters away from Democrats. Drawing on interviews, union newsletters, and ethnographic analysis, they pinpoint the significance of eroding local community ties and identities. Using western Pennsylvania as a case study, Newman and Skocpol argue that union members’ loyalty to Democratic candidates was as much a product of the group identity that unions fostered as it was a response to the Democratic Party’s economic policies. As the social world around organized labor dissipated, conservative institutions like gun clubs, megachurches, and other Republican-leaning groups took its place.

Rust Belt Union Blues sheds new light on why so many union members have dramatically changed their party politics. It makes a compelling case that Democrats are unlikely to rebuild credibility in places like western Pennsylvania unless they find new ways to weave themselves into the daily lives of workers and their families.”
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Wow…Theda Skocpol was hot stuff when I was a grad student with some of my profs in history - especially Gil Joseph.

THIS was the text..,


IMG_6400.jpeg
 
wmheel1287 said:
These idiots will be the very definition of fuck around and find out. Trump won't leave a breathing Palestinian in the Middle East. He will let Israel do whatever they want.
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100%

i do not feel sorry for any of them whatsoever. they can all go fuck themselves. the uncommitted and abandon people, that is. not all of the folks in the ME who will suffer.
 
heelinhell said:
"Abandon Harris" movement does a post mortem:confused:

www.nbcnews.com

Leaders of 'Uncommitted' and 'Abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves

A combination of worry and cautious optimism about Trump — and deep anger at the Democratic Party — pervade the groups.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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By no means do I believe the Muslim vote was a primary cause of Harris' loss, but I wouldn't expect Muslims in general, especially those who are Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers, to find much hope in either of the two main US political parties as it relates to the war. That's a good thing.
 
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ZenMode said:
By no means do I believe the Muslim vote was a primary cause of Harris' loss, but I wouldn't expect Muslims in general, especially those who are Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers, to find much hope in either of the two main US political parties as it relates to the war. That's a good thing.
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Which, to you, is probably most Muslims.
 
ZenMode said:
I wouldn't expect Muslims in general, especially those who are Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers, to find much hope in either of the two main US political parties as it relates to the war. That's a good thing.
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Yes, Muslims in general are more critical of our reflexive pro-Israel stance on a whole bunch of issues.

Why do you think that Muslims who oppose our policies in the region are "terrorist sympathizers"? You can be 1000% opposed to Likud and not be a "terrorist sympathizer".
 
heelinhell said:
"Abandon Harris" movement does a post mortem:confused:

www.nbcnews.com

Leaders of 'Uncommitted' and 'Abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves

A combination of worry and cautious optimism about Trump — and deep anger at the Democratic Party — pervade the groups.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Quotes like this make no sense to me: “President Trump, he continuously came and he was in the community. While I don’t believe that he’s going to enact policies that will benefit the community, he at least showed that he was willing to show up for the community,” Misner said.

If you don't believe his policies will benefit the community, does it really matter if he stops by?
 
TarSpiel said:
Yes, Muslims in general are more critical of our reflexive pro-Israel stance on a whole bunch of issues.
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What you call a pro-Israel stance, many would call anti-terrorist stance.
Why do you think that Muslims who oppose our policies in the region are "terrorist sympathizers"? You can be 1000% opposed to Likud and not be a "terrorist sympathizer".
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I specifically differentiated between Muslims and Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers because I don't believe all Muslims, even those who want Israel wiped off the Earth, automatically support Jihadism and terrorism.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't believe all Muslims, even those who want Israel wiped off the Earth, automatically support Jihadism and terrorism.
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Well that is mighty white of you.

Just curious, if you had to just throw a dart at it, what percentage of Muslims in the world do you think support violent Jihadism? Is it more like 1%, 10%, 25%, or 50%? Or higher?
 
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