Where do we go from here?

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Paine said:
All due respect, if this is your perspective, why do you care enough about politics to post on a political message board? Do you understand what politics is?
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I do understand what politics is now versus what it has been. Politics now is nothing more than a contest to entertain the masses. It is a reflection of our society's antipathy toward anything requiring commitment and effort. We have become the Roman Empire putting on spectacles to entertain the masses just enough to keep Caesar on the throne.

What you see in me now is the disillusionment of someone who has spent their entire adult life watching us devolve from a functioning democracy into an idiocracy.

Politics used to be policy. Now it is unserious grandstanding and one-liners.

And it's wonderful that you think policy can reach everyday voters. I just don't any longer. Did the ACA reach them? It has done more for the common man than any legislation since the New Deal and it's still detested by a majority of Americans simply because of who championed it.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I do understand what politics is now versus what it has been. Politics now is nothing more than a contest to entertain the masses. It is a reflection of our society's antipathy toward anything requiring commitment and effort. We have become the Roman Empire putting on spectacles to entertain the masses just enough to keep Caesar on the throne.

What you see in me now is the disillusionment of someone who has spent their entire adult life watching us devolve from a functioning democracy into an idiocracy.

Politics used to be policy. Now it is unserious grandstanding and one-liners.

And it's wonderful that you think policy can reach everyday voters. I just don't any longer. Did the ACA reach them? It has done more for the common man than any legislation since the New Deal and it's still detested by a majority of Americans simply because of who championed it.
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Policy doesn't matter to MAGA. They will vote against their self interests for someone like Trump if they think it will get them the fascist country they desire for straight white Christians. And some people just worship him like they enjoy stupid and trashy reality TV shows. He is the perfect person for them.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I do understand what politics is now versus what it has been. Politics now is nothing more than a contest to entertain the masses. It is a reflection of our society's antipathy toward anything requiring commitment and effort. We have become the Roman Empire putting on spectacles to entertain the masses just enough to keep Caesar on the throne.

What you see in me now is the disillusionment of someone who has spent their entire adult life watching us devolve from a functioning democracy into an idiocracy.

Politics used to be policy. Now it is unserious grandstanding and one-liners.

And it's wonderful that you think policy can reach everyday voters. I just don't any longer. Did the ACA reach them? It has done more for the common man than any legislation since the New Deal and it's still detested by a majority of Americans simply because of who championed it.
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CarolinaFever said:
Policy doesn't matter to MAGA. They will vote against their self interests for someone like Trump if they think it will get them the fascist country they desire for straight white Christians. And some people just worship him like they enjoy stupid and trashy reality TV shows. He is the perfect person for them.
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This is similar to my thinking as well. I've just come to the conclusion that we've become a society that aims for the lowest common denominator in everything - trashy reality shows are all the rage on more and more TV networks, our so-called "news" networks (including CNN & MSNBC) don't cover actual news or provide straight news anymore, it's all blowhard opinion shows and superficial news on celebrities and other crap 24/7, and so on. And Trump is the perfect president for our society right now - all bread and circuses with no substance, no depth, and no nothing, really. Just be entertaining and outrageous and threaten and bully the right people and you're golden. In my opinion this is eventually and inevitably going to blow up when we face a major crisis or economic downturn of some sort (it did during the pandemic to some extent), but I think that something worse than the pandemic is eventually going to happen, and the sheer incompetence and idiocy of Trump and his government (and our current society generally) will bite us all in the ass. But until then it's bread and circuses all the way.
 
Zoo_View said:
You’re insulting one of the best poasters on Inside Carolina and this site AND one of the most supportive Tar Heels going.
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That’s considered an insult to you?

All I’m saying is, if I was half as cynical as a lot of you, I wouldn’t even post about politics, follow politics, or talk to anyone about politics. If you think nothing makes a difference, just stop talking about it.

Especially on a thread titled “where do we go from here?” This is about the path forward. Not sitting around and moping about the current state of things. If you think nothing matters, fine. Don’t bring it here when I’m trying to discuss specifics of a piece. It’s not helpful.
 
Paine said:
That’s considered an insult to you?

All I’m saying is, if I was half as cynical as a lot of you, I wouldn’t even post about politics, follow politics, or talk to anyone about politics. If you think nothing makes a difference, just stop talking about it.

Especially on a thread titled “where do we go from here?” This is about the path forward. Not sitting around and moping about the current state of things. If you think nothing matters, fine. Don’t bring it here when I’m trying to discuss specifics of a piece. It’s not helpful.
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Any statement that begins, “All due respect….” is going to be an insult.

It’s similar to the phrase(s), “Let me be honest…../Honestly……/I’m going to be frank…..”…….one hears the speaker say such words and one knows the speaker is lying.

You closed with, “Do you understand what politics is?”

You don’t see that statement as an insult?

OK.
 
Zoo_View said:
Any statement that begins, “All due respect….” is going to be an insult.

It’s similar to the phrase(s), “Let me be honest…../Honestly……/I’m going to be frank…..”…….one hears the speaker say such words and one knows the speaker is lying.

You closed with, “Do you understand what politics is?”

You don’t see that statement as an insult?

OK.
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Maybe should’ve said something along the lines of “I mean this genuinely” instead of “all due respect.” It was a genuine question. I just can’t understand following a politics board and actively posting on it while simultaneously thinking voters are just too dumb/too far gone/too racist/too sexist or whatever. It doesn’t logically compute.

Politics is about convincing the voters that we have and winning power. If you don’t think that’s possible, what’s the point?
 
Paine said:
That’s considered an insult to you?

All I’m saying is, if I was half as cynical as a lot of you, I wouldn’t even post about politics, follow politics, or talk to anyone about politics. If you think nothing makes a difference, just stop talking about it.

Especially on a thread titled “where do we go from here?” This is about the path forward. Not sitting around and moping about the current state of things. If you think nothing matters, fine. Don’t bring it here when I’m trying to discuss specifics of a piece. It’s not helpful.
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Now it's my turn to respond to you. I never said nothing matters. You took that from.it because you don't like my point of view. I said that show, spectacle, and bombast matter. I said that policy doesn't move most voters and it specifically does not move the working class.

You want a path forward? Then you'd better be willing to acknowledge that all the reading, research, and scholarly thought in the world isn't going to change the fact that Americans crave a cult of personality currently.

The ONLY path forward that I see to winning for Democrats is to build a cult of personality in the same way that Republicans have built around Trump. Policy...even enormously popular and successful policy will not dent that.

We are in a post-truth society. What matters totally is perception and showmanship.

Take it from someone who turns classes into performance and "entertains" for a living. They don't want anything more or less than leaving feeling better than they came in, substance be damned.

Trump is circus entertainment and that is preferable to most of the country.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Now it's my turn to respond to you. I never said nothing matters. You took that from.it because you don't like my point of view. I said that show, spectacle, and bombast matter. I said that policy doesn't move most voters and it specifically does not move the working class.

You want a path forward? Then you'd better be willing to acknowledge that all the reading, research, and scholarly thought in the world isn't going to change the fact that Americans crave a cult of personality currently.

The ONLY path forward that I see to winning for Democrats is to build a cult of personality in the same way that Republicans have built around Trump. Policy...even enormously popular and successful policy will not dent that.

We are in a post-truth society. What matters totally is perception and showmanship.

Take it from someone who turns classes into performance and "entertains" for a living. They don't want anything more or less than leaving feeling better than they came in, substance be damned.

Trump is circus entertainment and that is preferable to most of the country.
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I really believe reality TV and social media has a lot to do with why things are like that, too. Just dumbed down the population even more
 
wmheel1287 said:
Now it's my turn to respond to you. I never said nothing matters. You took that from.it because you don't like my point of view. I said that show, spectacle, and bombast matter. I said that policy doesn't move most voters and it specifically does not move the working class.

You want a path forward? Then you'd better be willing to acknowledge that all the reading, research, and scholarly thought in the world isn't going to change the fact that Americans crave a cult of personality currently.

The ONLY path forward that I see to winning for Democrats is to build a cult of personality in the same way that Republicans have built around Trump. Policy...even enormously popular and successful policy will not dent that.

We are in a post-truth society. What matters totally is perception and showmanship.

Take it from someone who turns classes into performance and "entertains" for a living. They don't want anything more or less than leaving feeling better than they came in, substance be damned.

Trump is circus entertainment and that is preferable to most of the country.
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more substance here than what you said originally, still an incredibly cynical take and one that I, needless to say, don’t think is accurate at all.
 
Paine said:
Keep blaming the voters, surely that will help.
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Recognizing what people want is not blaming.

I don't like that's what they want, but it is.

As for what I originally said, you're the one that blew it out of proportion. I said that the article you posted assumes that the voter disconnect is a policy problem. I said I did not think that was the case.

You blew that up into me saying that "nothing matters to voters" which was never what I said.

It's fine that you disagree with me but at least don't take it further than what I said. I'm cynical enough without needing to be misquoted.

By the way, the populace has been telling us for years what they want. What happens every time some celebrity or athlete speaks up with a valid societal concern? "Shut up and dribble".

This recent election is just a further migration of that mindset. They want entertainment and a team to cheer for.

Either we will figure out how to do rhat or we will continue to lose them.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Recognizing what people want is not blaming.

I don't like that's what they want, but it is.

As for what I originally said, you're the one that blew it out of proportion. I said that the article you posted assumes that the voter disconnect is a policy problem. I said I did not think that was the case.

You blew that up into me saying that "nothing matters to voters" which was never what I said.

It's fine that you disagree with me but at least don't take it further than what I said. I'm cynical enough without needing to be misquoted.

By the way, the populace has been telling us for years what they want. What happens every time some celebrity or athlete speaks up with a valid societal concern? "Shut up and dribble".

This recent election is just a further migration of that mindset. They want entertainment and a team to cheer for.

Either we will figure out how to do rhat or we will continue to lose them.
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I don’t think what you’re saying is as disconnected from what I’m saying as you’re making it out to be. Part of crafting a team that people want to cheer for is advocating for and pushing forth easily understood policy proposals. To say that it doesn’t matter at all is silly.
 
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