Where do we go from here?

[donbosco]

Rust Belt Union Blues | Columbia University Press

In the heyday of American labor, the influence of local unions extended far beyond the workplace. Unions were embedded in tight-knit communities, touching ne... | CUP

cup.columbia.edu

Finally got my hands on this book for the holiday. Good read so far.

“Lainey Newman and Theda Skocpol provide timely insight into the relationship between the decline of unions and the shift of working-class voters away from Democrats. Drawing on interviews, union newsletters, and ethnographic analysis, they pinpoint the significance of eroding local community ties and identities. Using western Pennsylvania as a case study, Newman and Skocpol argue that union members’ loyalty to Democratic candidates was as much a product of the group identity that unions fostered as it was a response to the Democratic Party’s economic policies. As the social world around organized labor dissipated, conservative institutions like gun clubs, megachurches, and other Republican-leaning groups took its place.

Rust Belt Union Blues sheds new light on why so many union members have dramatically changed their party politics. It makes a compelling case that Democrats are unlikely to rebuild credibility in places like western Pennsylvania unless they find new ways to weave themselves into the daily lives of workers and their families.”

Wow…Theda Skocpol was hot stuff when I was a grad student with some of my profs in history - especially Gil Joseph.

THIS was the text..,

 

[Paine]

Wow…Theda Skocpol was hot stuff when I was a grad student with some of my profs in history - especially Gil Joseph.

THIS was the text..,

Wish I had the chance to take some classes under Joseph at Carolina. Miguel La Serna was who I took most of my Latin American history with. Don’t think I would’ve liked Yale very much (or have gotten in lol).

 

[wmheel1287]

"Abandon Harris" movement does a post mortem

Leaders in 'uncommitted' and 'abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves

A combination of worry and cautious optimism about Trump — and deep anger at the Democratic Party — pervade the groups.

www.nbcnews.com

These idiots will be the very definition of fuck around and find out. Trump won't leave a breathing Palestinian in the Middle East. He will let Israel do whatever they want.

 

[4thgenheel]

These idiots will be the very definition of fuck around and find out. Trump won't leave a breathing Palestinian in the Middle East. He will let Israel do whatever they want.

100%

i do not feel sorry for any of them whatsoever. they can all go fuck themselves. the uncommitted and abandon people, that is. not all of the folks in the ME who will suffer.

 

[altmin]

"Abandon Harris" movement does a post mortem

Leaders in 'uncommitted' and 'abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves

A combination of worry and cautious optimism about Trump — and deep anger at the Democratic Party — pervade the groups.

www.nbcnews.com

I am sure that cautious optimism will work out for them

 

[ZenMode]

"Abandon Harris" movement does a post mortem

Leaders in 'uncommitted' and 'abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves

A combination of worry and cautious optimism about Trump — and deep anger at the Democratic Party — pervade the groups.

www.nbcnews.com

By no means do I believe the Muslim vote was a primary cause of Harris' loss, but I wouldn't expect Muslims in general, especially those who are Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers, to find much hope in either of the two main US political parties as it relates to the war. That's a good thing.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

By no means do I believe the Muslim vote was a primary cause of Harris' loss, but I wouldn't expect Muslims in general, especially those who are Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers, to find much hope in either of the two main US political parties as it relates to the war. That's a good thing.

Which, to you, is probably most Muslims.

 

[TarSpiel]

I wouldn't expect Muslims in general, especially those who are Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers, to find much hope in either of the two main US political parties as it relates to the war. That's a good thing.

Yes, Muslims in general are more critical of our reflexive pro-Israel stance on a whole bunch of issues.

Why do you think that Muslims who oppose our policies in the region are "terrorist sympathizers"? You can be 1000% opposed to Likud and not be a "terrorist sympathizer".

 

[UNCatTech]

"Abandon Harris" movement does a post mortem

Leaders in 'uncommitted' and 'abandon Harris' movements reflect on Trump's victory and early moves

A combination of worry and cautious optimism about Trump — and deep anger at the Democratic Party — pervade the groups.

www.nbcnews.com

Quotes like this make no sense to me: “President Trump, he continuously came and he was in the community. While I don’t believe that he’s going to enact policies that will benefit the community, he at least showed that he was willing to show up for the community,” Misner said.

If you don't believe his policies will benefit the community, does it really matter if he stops by?

 

[ZenMode]

Yes, Muslims in general are more critical of our reflexive pro-Israel stance on a whole bunch of issues.

What you call a pro-Israel stance, many would call anti-terrorist stance.

Why do you think that Muslims who oppose our policies in the region are "terrorist sympathizers"? You can be 1000% opposed to Likud and not be a "terrorist sympathizer".

I specifically differentiated between Muslims and Jihadist/terrorist sympathizers because I don't believe all Muslims, even those who want Israel wiped off the Earth, automatically support Jihadism and terrorism.

 

[TarSpiel]

I don't believe all Muslims, even those who want Israel wiped off the Earth, automatically support Jihadism and terrorism.

Well that is mighty white of you.

Just curious, if you had to just throw a dart at it, what percentage of Muslims in the world do you think support violent Jihadism? Is it more like 1%, 10%, 25%, or 50%? Or higher?

 

[Bobfripp]

How America Invented the Red State

According to conventional wisdom, the last quarter century of elections has proved that most of the country leans conservative. It all started with a map.

www.thenation.com

Long read but worth it. Something a lot of liberal posters here need to read.

interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

The change in the USA from a manufacturing economy to a service economy is a huge issue that neither party has appeared to address in any meaningful way.

I recall Obama said something along the lines of 'those manufacturing jobs are not coming back' to the USA, due to globalization.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/10/17/163074704/manufacturing-jobs-arent-coming-back-no-matter-whos-president

Are tariffs on China and other 'low cost countries' going to bring back American manufacturing jobs, especially given increasing AI and automation? I'm highly skeptical. The only thing that might bring those jobs back would be for those LCCs to become like the USA, higher-cost countries. But then global capitalists will simple move on to other LCCs, maybe in Africa, or where ever else in the world cheap labor can be found.

 

[UNCatTech]

interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

The change in the USA from a manufacturing economy to a service economy is a huge issue that neither party has appeared to address in any meaningful way.

I recall Obama said something along the lines of 'those manufacturing jobs are not coming back' to the USA, due to globalization.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/10/17/163074704/manufacturing-jobs-arent-coming-back-no-matter-whos-president

Are tariffs on China and other 'low cost countries' going to bring back American manufacturing jobs, especially given increasing AI and automation? I'm highly skeptical. The only thing that might bring those jobs back would be for those LCCs to become like the USA, higher-cost countries. But then global capitalists will simple move on to other LCCs, maybe in Africa, or where ever else in the world a cheap labor can be found.

manufacturing is a great example of people talking out of both sides of their mouths.

They claim to want the manufacturing jobs back, yet they want the really low cost of goods that is a result of manufacturing in countries like China.

I would love to see all of those manufacturing jobs come back. Then watch the outcry when the $5 T shirt from Wal-Mart suddenly cost $30.

I mean they way they got up in arms over eggs going up to $6-8 a dozen, can you imagine when their new iPhone cost $3500?

Due to the cost of living and the wages in the US, there are some manufacturing jobs that it really doesn't make sense to come back.

I don't believe tariffs bring back the manufacturing jobs either. It's not simple, easy, or cheap to open up a manufacturing facility. It's not happening overnight.

And those factors look even more challenging when the manufacturing if of low margin goods and the jobs they produce are naturally low paying.

 

[finesse]

What factories that come back are going to be automation heavy and people light.

 

[Paine]

I think the more pertinent question re: manufacturing is not how many of those jobs we can bring back, it’s how do we replace the community bonds that these industrial jobs and their industrial unions created?

The role that unions play(ed) in reinforcing democracy has been severely underrated.

 

[Bobfripp]

I think the more pertinent question re: manufacturing is not how many of those jobs we can bring back, it’s how do we replace the community bonds that these industrial jobs and their industrial unions created?

The role that unions play(ed) in reinforcing democracy has been severely underrated.

How would one replace community bonds without the people having what they would consider meaningful employment, such as that provided by manufacturing jobs versus service sector jobs? They already have religion, family, community, but it seems like the so-called working class also need jobs that make them happy/proud/content. Does the service sector provide these jobs?

 

[donbosco]

As a 25 year veteran of service industry jobs I’d answer that yes, service jobs can provide that way.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

What factories that come back are going to be automation heavy and people light.

Agreed. I read somewhere that more manufacturing jobs have been lost due to automation than to outsourcing. It makes sense - you just don't need many people standing on an assembly line for nearly any product anymore when robots and machines can do the same tasks even better now. And those machines don't need sick leave, vacation time, retirement plans, or anything else other than occasional maintenance and a repair person from time to time. My guess is that even if all of the furniture and textile plants in my old hometown returned they would employ far fewer people than they did even thirty or so years ago. But you can't convince all of the former workers in those closed plants of that, because Trump seems to have convinced them that somehow with his tariffs he's going to magically bring not only their old factories, but all of their old jobs back too.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

And what's going to happen when technology puts the majority of people out of work?

 

[Bobfripp]

As a 25 year veteran of service industry jobs I’d answer that yes, service jobs can provide that way.

So then, for the people that supported Trump, might we assume their issues are not with the type of jobs they have (service vs manufacturing)? Assuming that's the case, is the issue that most concerns them is that they are underpaid?