Why Did Republicans Abandon Conservatism?

[ChapelHillSooner]

And apologies if I seem harsh. I am really f’ing pissed off right now.

I just sent a text to my brother (in response to one of his many post covid health updates nonetheless) and told him I will never forgive him for his support of a dictator until he shows some form of contrition.

So essentially, I am fucking pissed and ready to take it out on people.

 

[CFordUNC]

i haven’t read this whole thread but I reject the premise of it.

As much as I like what CFord contributes to this community, reading his posts and knowing his history makes me feel that he never truly understood what the right in America was.

While the methods may be extreme, almost all that is happening now, from the removal of thousands of federal workers to the removal of programs like SNAP, have been in the works for decades. There is nothing in any of that that contradicts American conservatism.

Nobody could support SNAP and also support the welfare queen ads from the ‘80s.

The abandonment of the rule of law is all that has changed.

Oh man, you have absolutely, positively no reason whatsoever to apologize. I don’t think anything that you said is wrong or unfair at all. And plus, I really appreciate the kind words. I definitely think there is a ton of truth to the fact that I probably never understood what the American right wing is or was in the first place. I certainly do not understand it now.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

Oh man, you have absolutely, positively no reason whatsoever to apologize. I don’t think anything that you said is wrong or unfair at all. And plus, I really appreciate the kind words. I definitely think there is a ton of truth to the fact that I probably never understood what the American right wing is or was in the first place. I certainly do not understand it now.

Well your kindness makes me want to apologize more.

 

[StrangePackage]

i haven’t read this whole thread but I reject the premise of it.

As much as I like what CFord contributes to this community, reading his posts and knowing his history makes me feel that he never truly understood what the right in America was.

While the methods may be extreme, almost all that is happening now, from the removal of thousands of federal workers to the removal of programs like SNAP, have been in the works for decades. There is nothing in any of that that contradicts American conservatism.

Nobody could support SNAP and also support the welfare queen ads from the ‘80s.

The abandonment of the rule of law is all that has changed.

"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum

 

[CFordUNC]

Well your kindness makes me want to apologize more.

Heck no! You said absolutely nothing wrong. I thought that what you said was totally valid. One of the nearly countless things that I appreciate about the greater board community here is how much I have my perspectives and views challenged and how much cause I’ve had for introspection based on what I’ve learned from a countless number of different posters over the years. Other than general lived experience over the last 10 years or so since I’ve been on this board, I would happily credit many, many posters in this community- yourself absolutely included- for helping me to become more caring, more compassionate, and more empathetic for others. Which come to think of it, is precisely why I’m no longer Republican.

 

[wmheel1287]

Well your kindness makes me want to apologize more.

That's the problem with that CFord guy. He's so damned nice and well meaning that you just want to punch him in the mouth for it.

 

[BillOfRights]

There's nothing unusual yet. It's normal legal back and forth. Appeals.... clarification.... probably some games being played, but there has been nothing from the Trump admin saying they're going to ignore the courts and do what they want. In fact, the justice department is saying they ARE complying.

Vance's Tweet was more or less a challenge to the courts, but a challenge isn't ignoring rulings. The challenge is, again, normal power struggle type of stuff.

Now I know you're just a troll.

None of this is normal.

 

[CFordUNC]

That's the problem with that CFord guy. He's so damned nice and well meaning that you just want to punch him in the mouth for it.

Shoot. Y’all are being way too generous to me, I wish I were as nice as y’all think I am. I’d be a much better person.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

If anyone is interested in a reasonable, Liberal perspective on what's going on with the courts and Trump, this is a good podcast.

Not reading/listening to your own links is not a smart play on this forum.

 

[SnoopRob]

i haven’t read this whole thread but I reject the premise of it.

As much as I like what CFord contributes to this community, reading his posts and knowing his history makes me feel that he never truly understood what the right in America was.

While the methods may be extreme, almost all that is happening now, from the removal of thousands of federal workers to the removal of programs like SNAP, have been in the works for decades. There is nothing in any of that that contradicts American conservatism.

Nobody could support SNAP and also support the welfare queen ads from the ‘80s.

The abandonment of the rule of law is all that has changed.

I think a lot of folks who reject the Republican Party end up doing so because they took conservatism so seriously. For these folks, if you've really bought into the idea of small government, individual rights, and personal liberty, it's hard to accept the Republican Party once you realize that they don't govern as if they actually believe in those things.

I think of CFord as being one of those folks and that his conversion out of the Republican Party is because of actually believing in these things in a way the Republican Party only lied about believing.

(In a similar vein, a lot of the folks I know who have the strongest antipathy to the evangelical church are those who grew up in those churches and truly believe(d) what they learned there about Jesus, coming to dislike those churches once they realized how poorly those churches do at actually being like Christ. If you take the biblical story of Christ seriously, it's hard to stomach the things done in his name by so many of his followers.)

 

[ZenMode]

Not reading/listening to your own links is not a smart play on this forum.

I've listened to it twice, but thanks for the input.

 

[ZenMode]

Data, analysis, findings:

“Women’s work” and the gender pay gap: How discrimination, societal norms, and other forces affect women’s occupational choices—and their pay

Serious attempts to understand the gender wage gap should not include shifting the blame to women for not earning more. Rather, these attempts should examine where our economy provides unequal opportunities for women at every point of their education, training, and career choices.

www.epi.org

There are many reasons that the gender pay gap exists. Economists label these reasons as supply side (women’s choices) and demand side (employers’ choices), although it can be difficult to untangle the two or categorize them neatly as one or the other. Legal constraints, economic structures and gender norms have also played a role in shaping women’s preferences and choices. Sociologists may even argue that career preferences emerge in childhood from gender-specific socialization processes.

Why the Gender Pay Gap Persists in American Businesses – Darden Report Online

April 4, 2024 Darden professor Allison Elias, author of "The Rise of Corporate Feminism," on the history of the continuing gender pay gap, where things stand today and new research on possible solutions. –

news.darden.virginia.edu

It's hardly an American problem. Probably worse in many countries.

Understanding the gender pay gap: definition, facts and causes | Topics | European Parliament

Working women in the EU earn on average 12% less per hour than men. Discover statistics by country and read about the reasons behind the gender pay gap.

www.europarl.europa.eu

Fewer and lower-paid female managers​

Women also hold fewer executive positions: in 2020 they made up a third (34%) of managers in the EU, although they represent almost half of the employees. If we look at the gap in different occupations, female managers are at the greatest disadvantage: they earn 23% less per hour than male managers.

Again, if women tend to get into lower paying careers, take more time off, tend to work less than men, them it might also stand to reason that those lower paying careers would also pay managers less, right? It might also stand to reason that women who take years off to raise kids would have less experience and therefore be paid less as a manager or really any other career.

I was a buyer at a tech company for a year. I was in my late 20's. The more experienced buyers make and female, ALL made more than I did.

There is so much more information and detail needed to truly assess the reason for the pay gap, but I do not see how it can be definitely declared to be the result of discrimination and misogyny at this point.

 

[Ddseddse]

The OP's question is one with a surprisingly specific anwer. To whit...

Vice President George Bush was only 'kidding' reporters when... - UPI Archives

Vice President George Bush was only 'kidding' reporters when he denied branding Ronald Reagan's economic proposals 'voodoo economics' during the 1980...

www.upi.com

Simply put in the run up to the 1980 presidential election, George H.W. Bush's political political ambitions (after he lost the primary to Reagan), led him to commit the Origin Sin against big C conservatism by eating his own words criticizing Reagan's trickle down nonsense (he had called it Voodoo Economics during the primary). Because he wanted to satisfy his own personal selfish ambitions (get the VP slot). So he sold the rest of us down the road and hopped in bed with the supply side nonsense that he knew full well was bullshit.

This had two effects, for one it solidified the myth of "tax cuts for the ultra rich will make us all prosperous!" with the depressingly predictable end result that 50 years later we are all being lorded over by an oligarchic billionaire ruling class. But maybe just as consequently, it set the template for "Republicans fall in line for even the most batshit stupid lunacy" that continues to reverberate right down to this day.