ZZLP impact on IC?

[CFordUNC]

I've been attending UNC football games since 1975. So, this will be my 50th season (although there were a few years in there that I didn't make it to any games. The California-Chapel Hill commute is tough).

In those 50 seasons, we have won nine games exactly nine times. So, you may not need to dance a jig, but it is at least worthy of a shimmy.

Alright, that's fair!

Man alive, that is some impressive commitment to Carolina football...50 years. Wow. My hat is off to you.

 

[Enigma94]

If one person describes the glass as half-full, and another person describes the glass as half-empty, neither has said anything incorrect,

HY said that the Mack era was "far above the historical norm". I don't see how that can be described as accurate when the win-loss percentage is virtually identical to our historical record. Adding in the fact that we wasted arguably the two best QB's in our history is more subjective, but the defense being historically terrible is another fact, so I'm not sure why you'd have an issue with what I posted. I've said before I don't think the Mack era has been failure, more like a missed opportunity - but I definitely don't think it's accurate to characterize it as far above the historical norm.

 

[Calheel]

HY said that the Mack era was "far above the historical norm". I don't see how that can be described as accurate when the win-loss percentage is virtually identical to our historical record. Adding in the fact that we wasted arguably the two best QB's in our history is more subjective, but the defense being historically terrible is another fact, so I'm not sure why you'd have an issue with what I posted. I've said before I don't think the Mack era has been failure, more like a missed opportunity - but I definitely don't think it's accurate to characterize it as far above the historical norm.

Because there are other ways to evaluate success than a five year win loss record. Heelyeah is correct that a top 10 ranking at least once in four different years, an orange bowl appearance and a conference championship appearance is considerably better than out five year average.

Just focusing on a single stat, while true, doesn’t tell the whole picture.

Also, he inherited a program that had won five games in two years. That would be a significant handicap for most coaches. It is not as though he was taking over from Nick Saban.

 

[Peppers49]

We’ve won 56% of our games historically and 58% the last 5 years, so far and away better than the norm is a massive stretch. When you consider there are more cupcake games in the modern era and the fact we had arguably the two best players we’ve ever had at the most important position on the field I can’t get on board with the idea that Mack 2.0 has been something we should appreciate and better than we have a right to expect.

What did I say that's incorrect?

Nothing. Frankly, anyone who tries to compare our win % over the last 5 seasons to our all time program win % as a way to defend Mack, is grasping at straws. That’s such a flawed way to evaluate success lol.

 

[HeelYeah2012]

Because there are other ways to evaluate success than a five year win loss record. Heelyeah is correct that a top 10 ranking at least once in four different years, an orange bowl appearance and a conference championship appearance is considerably better than out five year average.

Just focusing on a single stat, while true, doesn’t tell the whole picture.

Also, he inherited a program that had won five games in two years. That would be a significant handicap for most coaches. It is not as though he was taking over from Nick Saban.

I was going to respond but this quoted post from Calheel already sums up what I was going to say.

Nice to be on the same side of a debate on here, Cal!

 

[Enigma94]

Because there are other ways to evaluate success than a five year win loss record. Heelyeah is correct that a top 10 ranking at least once in four different years, an orange bowl appearance and a conference championship appearance is considerably better than out five year average.

Just focusing on a single stat, while true, doesn’t tell the whole picture.

Also, he inherited a program that had won five games in two years. That would be a significant handicap for most coaches. It is not as though he was taking over from Nick Saban.

It’s fine if we disagree but to me you are what your record says you are. In three of those “top ten” seasons we finished the season unranked. One of those top tens was preseason and we promptly lost to a VT team that would end up 6-7 in the first game and then a couple of weeks later lost to a GT team that ended up 3-9. We were never ranked again, so counting that season as a success under any metric seems odd to me. Unfortunately for Mack the entire season counts.

 

[Calheel]

It’s fine if we disagree but to me you are what your record says you are. In three of those “top ten” seasons we finished the season unranked. One of those top tens was preseason and we promptly lost to a VT team that would end up 6-7 in the first game and then a couple of weeks later lost to a GT team that ended up 3-9. We were never ranked again, so counting that season as a success under any metric seems odd to me. Unfortunately for Mack the entire season counts.

I think it counts in the sense that we were nationally relevant for an entire off-season. National CFB shows were talking about the Heels. There was a real buzz about the program. Now, that lasted until approximately the 2d quarter in Blacksburg (and the ACC did us no favors making us go on the road to Va tech for the first non-Covid game in two years) but compared to where we were in 2017 and 2018? When I think of the success of a coach, that is one of the things I think about. Did Carolina football matter when he was there? Obviously, the last few years have not ended the way we would like, and the repeated losses to double digit underdogs are confounding. On the other hand, you have to be doing something right to be a double digit favorite regularly.

And there have been some very, very awesome moments in the last few years, most memorably, the last two home games against Duke and the 2020 win at Miami. Those Wake Forest wins have been pretty great, too.

 

[CarolinaFever]

I think we have a college football thread here.

 

[Rock]

I was going to suggest a rename.

 

[Zoo_View]

I think it counts in the sense that we were nationally relevant for an entire off-season. National CFB shows were talking about the Heels. There was a real buzz about the program. Now, that lasted until approximately the 2d quarter in Blacksburg (and the ACC did us no favors making us go on the road to Va tech for the first non-Covid game in two years) but compared to where we were in 2017 and 2018? When I think of the success of a coach, that is one of the things I think about. Did Carolina football matter when he was there? Obviously, the last few years have not ended the way we would like, and the repeated losses to double digit underdogs are confounding. On the other hand, you have to be doing something right to be a double digit favorite regularly.

And there have been some very, very awesome moments in the last few years, most memorably, the last two home games against Duke and the 2020 win at Miami. Those Wake Forest wins have been pretty great, too.

Wins against d00k, Wake, and this era’s Miami……..yeah…..that’ll have college football thinking, “The Heels are a power.”

 

[Centerpiece]

I was going to suggest a rename.

Going back to the OP, I was interested in hearing more about the bees, goats and dogs. I was thinking a pretty cool, small farm producing local honey, goats milk cheese and soap and a couple of Great Pyrenees to patrol the perimeter and keep the goats safe.

But I guess a football thread works too.