ZZLP impact on IC?

Kraftyheel89 said:
We have fallen to State level ineptitude and hopelessness. HOF'er Grandpa Mack, 2 recent NFL QB selection and probably the best in program history. Yet we have reached the point of "just beat State and I'll be happy."

That was always the State mantra, to beat UNC to have a successful season.
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Yep. It's demoralizing but that's where we are.
 
Personally, I'm happy being slightly above average with an occasional standout year. I sat through so many games in the Bunting and Torbush eras where we couldn't even compete with most teams. I like going to the games and knowing that most of the time we are going to be competitive. It seems like so many non-powerhouse programs get to 7-8 wins and plateau then get greedy and think they would be Alabama or Georgia with a new coach. And what usually happens is they end up with 3-4 wins for a lot of years thereafter. Our non-alum fanbase on IC is particularly guilty of this.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
Personally, I'm happy being slightly above average with an occasional standout year. I sat through so many games in the Bunting and Torbush eras where we couldn't even compete with most teams. I like going to the games and knowing that most of the time we are going to be competitive. It seems like so many non-powerhouse programs get to 7-8 wins and plateau then get greedy and think they would be Alabama or Georgia with a new coach. And what usually happens is they end up with 3-4 wins for a lot of years thereafter. Our non-alum fanbase on IC is particularly guilty of this.
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I would also be fine with slightly above average with an occasional standout season. The problem is that we never actually get that occasional standout season lol.

I look at it this way: none of the past 5 seasons, in a vacuum, have been downright terrible. However, the fact that the best season during this Mack 2.0 stint was going 8-3 and backing our way into the Orange Bowl in that weird Covid season where the games were played in mostly empty stadiums, makes it a pretty disappointing stretch all things considered.

A program with the built in advantages that UNC has (flagship university in a relatively talent-rich state, playing in a relatively weak conference) should win 10+ games more often than once every 25 years.
 
Peppers49 said:
I look at it this way: none of the past 5 seasons, in a vacuum, have been downright terrible. However, the fact that the best season during this Mack 2.0 stint was going 8-3 and backing our way into the Orange Bowl in that weird Covid season where the games were played in mostly empty stadiums, makes it a pretty disappointing stretch all things considered.
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I'm not sure if I'd say downright terrible, but certainly thought we'd do better with 5 straight years of NFL starter caliber QB's, including one who may be an all-timer. That said, that was about as fun a 5 year stretch of Carolina football as I can remember. Even with the disappointing losses, I always felt like we had a chance in pretty much any game and of course Howell and Maye lit it up most games, even in losing efforts. Certainly didn't hurt having Javonte and Carter in there the first couple of years of that run.

Marquise Williams' senior year and Mitch Trubisky's single year weren't bad either (esp. Marquise). That's 7 out of the last 9 years where I thought we had a reasonable chance against pretty much anybody on the schedule and put up a lot of points and yards, in the air and on the ground. Obviously the final season results were somewhat disappointing, but it sure was fun to watch...
 
It's all personal opinion, so nobody is right or wrong, but I couldn't say the last 5 years were fun for me. Watching the skill position players was fun I suppose, but that was more than offset by how demoralizing the defense was. The App St game in 2022 typifies the feeling of the last 5 years. Incredible individual play by Maye and his supporting cast, but the embarrassing display put on by the defense made it impossible to enjoy for me.
 
Enigma94 said:
It's all personal opinion, so nobody is right or wrong, but I couldn't say the last 5 years were fun for me. Watching the skill position players was fun I suppose, but that was more than offset by how demoralizing the defense was. The App St game in 2022 typifies the feeling of the last 5 years. Incredible individual play by Maye and his supporting cast, but the embarrassing display put on by the defense made it impossible to enjoy for me.
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Yeah this is about how I feel. If someone has genuinely enjoyed the last 5 seasons then more power to them, but in my personal opinion it’s been an embarrassing run overall considering the talent level on the roster compared to our opponents.

The stat that sums it up for me is that time we’ve played 7 conference games as double digit favorites, and lost outright 5 times. That’s a major indictment of the coaching. Not to mention all of the games Sam Howell or Drake Maye had to go supernova to barely hold on against a terrible opponent because the defense was giving up TDs at will. When we do play opponents that are either at our talent level or above it, we routinely get absolutely flattened.
 
Peppers49 said:
Not to mention all of the games Sam Howell or Drake Maye had to go supernova to barely hold on against a terrible opponent because the defense was giving up TDs at will. When we do play opponents that are either at our talent level or above it, we routinely get absolutely flattened.
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No doubt the defense was disappointing (to say the least) during that stretch. It didn't help that IC blew so much smoke up everyone's ass leading into most of those years telling us how much better the D was going to be "this year." Well, "this year" never came...
 
The past 5 years were far from perfect, but they’ve also been far above the historical norm for UNC.

Top 10 rankings (or close to it) at some point in each of the last 4 seasons, right? 2020 basically a top ten team for the full year as a whole and an Orange Bowl appearance (first major bowl in 60 years). 2021 preseason top ten and then disappointment. 2022 top ten when we got to 9-1 hosting GT, and an ACCCG appearance for only the second time ever. 2023 top ten when we got to 6-0 hosting UVA.

Sure we have had our bad moments, but people are irrationally down on us. The late season collapses and the losses to NC State suck. But there’s been more good than bad, by our standards.
 
We’ve won 56% of our games historically and 58% the last 5 years, so far and away better than the norm is a massive stretch. When you consider there are more cupcake games in the modern era and the fact we had arguably the two best players we’ve ever had at the most important position on the field I can’t get on board with the idea that Mack 2.0 has been something we should appreciate and better than we have a right to expect.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
The past 5 years were far from perfect, but they’ve also been far above the historical norm for UNC.

Top 10 rankings (or close to it) at some point in each of the last 4 seasons, right? 2020 basically a top ten team for the full year as a whole and an Orange Bowl appearance (first major bowl in 60 years). 2021 preseason top ten and then disappointment. 2022 top ten when we got to 9-1 hosting GT, and an ACCCG appearance for only the second time ever. 2023 top ten when we got to 6-0 hosting UVA.

Sure we have had our bad moments, but people are irrationally down on us. The late season collapses and the losses to NC State suck. But there’s been more good than bad, by our standards.
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I don’t think that comparing our win % over the last 5 seasons with the all time program win % is helpful. Way too many factors have changed way too often over the years for that to make any sense.

Yes, it’s nice to take care of business and get off to good starts early in the season, but being ranked 10th in early October doesn’t really mean anything in the long run when you collapse down the stretch and lose all of the games against the good teams late in the season.
 
Enigma94 said:
We’ve won 56% of our games historically and 58% the last 5 years, so far and away better than the norm is a massive stretch. When you consider there are more cupcake games in the modern era and the fact we had arguably the two best players we’ve ever had at the most important position on the field I can’t get on board with the idea that Mack 2.0 has been something we should appreciate and better than we have a right to expect.
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Yeah this is exactly where I’m at, almost word for word, in fact. For three consecutive years we recruited significantly above our historic norm, and for five consecutive years we had far and away the two best offensive players in school history at quarterback. We have not played a murderers row of schedule, by any means. And the three biggest accomplishments are a Military Bowl trophy, an appearance in the Orange Bowl under…very unique… circumstances where we played in front of a stadium that was a third full and with all of our best players (except for one) opting out, and an appearance in the ACC championship game where we got our butts kicked. Just hard for me to feel any particular level of enthusiasm or excitement about that. Certainly I would much rather have the last five years that we have had, versus the last five that we had under John Bunting, or even the last five that we had under Larry Fedora, but with the investment that we have made in staff salaries, facilities, etc. I just think we are getting a subpar ROI.
 
CFordUNC said:
Yeah this is exactly where I’m at, almost word for word, in fact. For three consecutive years we recruited significantly above our historic norm, and for five consecutive years we had far and away the two best offensive players in school history at quarterback. We have not played a murderers row of schedule, by any means. And the three biggest accomplishments are a Military Bowl trophy, an appearance in the Orange Bowl under…very unique… circumstances where we played in front of a stadium that was a third full and with all of our best players (except for one) opting out, and an appearance in the ACC championship game where we got our butts kicked. Just hard for me to feel any particular level of enthusiasm or excitement about that. Certainly I would much rather have the last five years that we have had, versus the last five that we had under John Bunting, or even the last five that we had under Larry Fedora, but with the investment that we have made in staff salaries, facilities, etc. I just think we are getting a subpar ROI.
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I have found the last 5 years to be absolutely infuriating. I know that isn't rational but it is my response. The abysmal years never really damped my enthusiasm for football but I'm now at the point of not knowing a single player on the team and not knowing when we play or who.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I have found the last 5 years to be absolutely infuriating. I know that isn't rational but it is my response. The abysmal years never really damped my enthusiasm for football but I'm now at the point of not knowing a single player on the team and not knowing when we play or who.
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That's a great point. Now that I think about it, even when we were positively hapless during the Bunting years, I was always chomping at the bit ready for the season to start.
 
Enigma94 said:
We’ve won 56% of our games historically and 58% the last 5 years, so far and away better than the norm is a massive stretch. When you consider there are more cupcake games in the modern era and the fact we had arguably the two best players we’ve ever had at the most important position on the field I can’t get on board with the idea that Mack 2.0 has been something we should appreciate and better than we have a right to expect.
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Well, that is certainly a glass half-empty way of spinning HeelYeah's points.
 
Enigma94 said:
What did I say that's incorrect?
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Absolutely nothing you said was incorrect.

With all due respect to Calheel, whom I genuinely like and respect as a poster, he thinks that a 9-win season this year would be "jig-worthy." I strongly disagree with that.
 
CFordUNC said:
Absolutely nothing you said was incorrect.

With all due respect to Calheel, whom I genuinely like and respect as a poster, he thinks that a 9-win season this year would be "jig-worthy." I strongly disagree with that.
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I've been attending UNC football games since 1975. So, this will be my 50th season (although there were a few years in there that I didn't make it to any games. The California-Chapel Hill commute is tough).

In those 50 seasons, we have won nine games exactly nine times. So, you may not need to dance a jig, but it is at least worthy of a shimmy.
 
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