2024 Pre-Election Political Polls | POLL - Trump would have had 7 point lead over Biden

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What trends?
I've read some articles recently which have pointed out that despite the ups and downs of polling, in general the polls have been remarkably stable over the past couple of months, and they have consistently given Kamala a lead. Of course I'm skeptical of polls in general this year, but I do think as we get closer to election day a lot of very anxious Democrats are freaking out (and not without reason, I might add, given that Trump might win). And my guess is that this anxiety will get worse for some people as we get closer to the election. The trauma of 2016 for Democrats is very real.
 
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I've read some articles recently which have pointed out that despite the ups and downs of polling, in general the polls have been remarkably stable over the past couple of months, and they have consistently given Kamala a lead. Of course I'm skeptical of polls in general this year, but I do think as we get closer to election day a lot of very anxious Democrats are freaking out (and not without reason, I might add, given that Trump might win). And my guess is that this anxiety will get worse for some people as get closer to the election.
I’m terrified
 
I’m terrified
I can tell. And my guess is that most liberals are feeling some anxiety right now, and with good reason. Having said that, I'm not the type who is going to express said anxieties on an anonymous message board, but maybe that's just me. My own feeling is that right now all we can do is make sure we vote, try to convince others we know who agree with our views to vote, and hope and pray for the best.
 
I can tell. And my guess is that most liberals are feeling some anxiety right now, and with good reason. Having said that, I'm not the type who is going to express said anxieties on an anonymous message board, but maybe that's just me. My own feeling is that right now all we can do is make sure we vote, try to convince others we know who agree with our views to vote, and hope and pray for the best.
Yeah I just can’t believe we are about 2 weeks away from this country voting an absolute piece of shit into the office of president. It’s shocking. And That means I am that close to simply not caring anymore.
 
Yeah I just can’t believe we are about 2 weeks away from this country voting an absolute piece of shit into the office of president. It’s shocking. And That means I am that close to simply not caring anymore.
Well, I guess the difference is that I'm not giving up just yet and I'll wait until the actual election returns come in and for Trump to win before I'll worry too much. Maybe it's just that I'm older now, but I have enough to focus on at work and with my family to worry about things this far in advance. If Trump wins I'll indeed be anxious and depressed and seriously worry about the country's future, but as I said I'm not giving up just yet, and I don't think the election is a lost cause.
 
But in short they are indicative of enthusiasm. And that is a metric that can usually give some doubt that polls could be slightly off to one side. That's one thing she's got more of this cycle
While campaign rally turnout is indicative of enthusiasm, it's indicative of enthusiasm among the base and the base is already going to the polls for their candidate.

I don't think campaign rallies are indicative of support among the low-propensity voters who decide elections and therefore likely shouldn't be viewed as a significant input toward who will win an election.
 
NBC News with a poll this morning on how folks feel on the issues

And if it's accurate, Harris is in good shape.. Her side of the issues is over 50% in each one
This one??????

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That doesn't look especially good for Harris.

 
But in short they are indicative of enthusiasm. And that is a metric that can usually give some doubt that polls could be slightly off to one side. That's one thing she's got more of this cycle

All in all, polls could well just be in more trouble than they even were in 2020 and 16.

Phone Spam detection and flagging is way better for calls and texts in just 4 years and definitely 8. I have to imagine people engaging in phone calls is down. Texts from random #s way down and responding to unknown email in the phishing day and age? Absolutely plummeted. That's one I know from work and it's way way way worse to get engagement via email than 4 years ago
1. Well, you didn't know that the rallies were indicative of enthusiasm. I didn't either. I thought it was a lot of bullshit. I'm not sure it's not bullshit, but in any event, I don't think I was ignorant in 2016. I think the knowledge didn't exist. I don't think you were ignorant.

2. This whole idea that response rates are down and therefore the polls are bad -- I don't know if the conclusion follows from the premise. Low response rates mean that pollsters have to work harder to get their samples, that's true. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the samples they get are somehow systemically biased. With all the polling we have, only systematic bias is likely to get through a poll average.

Could the low response rates create systematic poll biases? Sure, it could. I can think of a lot of plausible stories consistent with that idea. Maybe Trump supporters have become more eager to talk to pollsters because Trump talks about the polls so much and they want to push him into the lead. Maybe the people who used to respond to polls have had enough, and thus bias in the polls in previous elections could therefore cause the polls to bias the other way (though that is unlikely because of numbers). It could be that the total universe of people who answer polls has shrunk so much that the pollsters are basically just sampling the same people over and over again (though this story also potentially runs into number problems).

But we don't know any of that to be true. It's also possible that the samples pollsters have obtained are, in fact, representative and the only issue was the difficulty and cost of obtaining them. The fact that the polls are commonly weighting by recalled vote, and the polls that don't tend to favor Kamala in the EC, gives me some hope. That's an unreliable method and I think it's being used as an ad hoc patch of uncertain validity. But again, we don't know.
 
I can tell. And my guess is that most liberals are feeling some anxiety right now, and with good reason. Having said that, I'm not the type who is going to express said anxieties on an anonymous message board, but maybe that's just me. My own feeling is that right now all we can do is make sure we vote, try to convince others we know who agree with our views to vote, and hope and pray for the best.
I largely agree with you, but isn't an anonymous message board a great place to express yourself and vent those anxieties? I know I largely cannot discuss my concerns with others around me, so this is a helpful environment.
 
I largely agree with you, but isn't an anonymous message board a great place to express yourself and vent those anxieties? I know I largely cannot discuss my concerns with others around me, so this is a helpful environment.
I suppose if that's what you're comfortable with, but personally I'd much rather find a friend or relative to discuss such concerns with. Doing so on an anonymous board has just never done much for me, especially given the number of trolls on message boards. But if it helps by all means do so. I'd just prefer face-to-face personal interaction than having someone I don't know and have never met try to comfort me or make me feel better on a message board, especially about something like an election.
 
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1. Well, you didn't know that the rallies were indicative of enthusiasm. I didn't either. I thought it was a lot of bullshit. I'm not sure it's not bullshit, but in any event, I don't think I was ignorant in 2016. I think the knowledge didn't exist. I don't think you were ignorant.

2. This whole idea that response rates are down and therefore the polls are bad -- I don't know if the conclusion follows from the premise. Low response rates mean that pollsters have to work harder to get their samples, that's true. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the samples they get are somehow systemically biased. With all the polling we have, only systematic bias is likely to get through a poll average.

Could the low response rates create systematic poll biases? Sure, it could. I can think of a lot of plausible stories consistent with that idea. Maybe Trump supporters have become more eager to talk to pollsters because Trump talks about the polls so much and they want to push him into the lead. Maybe the people who used to respond to polls have had enough, and thus bias in the polls in previous elections could therefore cause the polls to bias the other way (though that is unlikely because of numbers). It could be that the total universe of people who answer polls has shrunk so much that the pollsters are basically just sampling the same people over and over again (though this story also potentially runs into number problems).

But we don't know any of that to be true. It's also possible that the samples pollsters have obtained are, in fact, representative and the only issue was the difficulty and cost of obtaining them. The fact that the polls are commonly weighting by recalled vote, and the polls that don't tend to favor Kamala in the EC, gives me some hope. That's an unreliable method and I think it's being used as an ad hoc patch of uncertain validity. But again, we don't know.
If there are variances in response rates among key demographics that absolutely can impact poll quality. Across the board. For every poll
 
it's not data but he is a savvy politico

Everything he says makes sense in a non-trump election, but when trump is on the ballot, regular-world data, indicators, and experience are irrelevant. If polls had Harris up 10 points, I would still be worried. Silent-trump voters, misogyny, racism, and disinformation are factors that I haven't seen captured or represented. Biden was up in the polls, won the popular vote by 4.4%, and it was still a squeaker. I pray I'm wrong and you and McKinnon are right.
 
Everything he says makes sense in a non-trump election, but when trump is on the ballot, regular-world data, indicators, and experience are irrelevant. If polls had Harris up 10 points, I would still be worried. Silent-trump voters, misogyny, racism, and disinformation are factors that I haven't seen captured or represented. Biden was up in the polls, won the popular vote by 4.4%, and it was still a squeaker. I pray I'm wrong and you and McKinnon are right.
Ain't none of them silent about anything anymore. More likely the other way around in Purple land.
 
I clicked on a Twitter post, and accidentally got flooded with Trump and maga talking about him having a 93% chance to win from RCP.


They are using a Nate silver Stat, applying it to blanket RCP with red wave polls in there, and making a weird extrapolation. And the same post is now everywhere and he's seen it. So it's just a big maga orgy on that site

The monolithic nature is why they cannot believe he could lose
 
If there are variances in response rates among key demographics that absolutely can impact poll quality. Across the board. For every poll
Why? And why would those polling errors be systematic? If they eventually get the "right number" of respondents, and/or weight appropriately, then why is that necessarily worse than equally low response rates among voters? It does require assumptions about "the right number," but that's why we look at polling averages.

Idk. It's been a while since I did stats, and I didn't really do stats in this particular way, and I know you have a technical background. So I'm not sure I'm right here. Far from it. I just have not found an adequate explanation why "low response rates, even variable ones" -> bad and systemically biased polls.
 
Sure. Large bets, made by foreign sources, and (4) specific offshore bets spiking in Trump’s favor give indications of Trump’s chances.

Sure seems like intentional market manipulation.

Tell me again how that’s a strong indicator for results?
1. Well, you didn't know that the rallies were indicative of enthusiasm. I didn't either. I thought it was a lot of bullshit. I'm not sure it's not bullshit, but in any event, I don't think I was ignorant in 2016. I think the knowledge didn't exist. I don't think you were ignorant.

2. This whole idea that response rates are down and therefore the polls are bad -- I don't know if the conclusion follows from the premise. Low response rates mean that pollsters have to work harder to get their samples, that's true. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the samples they get are somehow systemically biased. With all the polling we have, only systematic bias is likely to get through a poll average.

Could the low response rates create systematic poll biases? Sure, it could. I can think of a lot of plausible stories consistent with that idea. Maybe Trump supporters have become more eager to talk to pollsters because Trump talks about the polls so much and they want to push him into the lead. Maybe the people who used to respond to polls have had enough, and thus bias in the polls in previous elections could therefore cause the polls to bias the other way (though that is unlikely because of numbers). It could be that the total universe of people who answer polls has shrunk so much that the pollsters are basically just sampling the same people over and over again (though this story also potentially runs into number problems).

But we don't know any of that to be true. It's also possible that the samples pollsters have obtained are, in fact, representative and the only issue was the difficulty and cost of obtaining them. The fact that the polls are commonly weighting by recalled vote, and the polls that don't tend to favor Kamala in the EC, gives me some hope. That's an unreliable method and I think it's being used as an ad hoc patch of uncertain validity. But again, we don't know.
I think polls at this point operate like jury duty. Juries/poll respondents are composed of the people too stupid to get out of it, with a small helping of people who are weirdly excited to do it thrown in. The hard work of qualifying a jury/poll respondent pool among those left eventually gets you to an answer that seems like it might make sense, but sometimes crazy shit happens because of who's actually in there.
 
I appreciate you guys optimism but right not the trends don’t look good.
I feel you. My mental health is on the edge right now. I can't explain how much better my life will be when trump is over. Some of it is knowing actual bad shit that will happen if he becomes President again, some of it is knowing there will be bad shit I can't even imagine, and some of it is being unable to control these thoughts in my own mind. It's like for the last several months I'm watching everything I love being tied to the train tracks, and for the next two weeks, knowing the train is coming. Even if Harris wins, it won't be over until noon on January 20, 2025, but at least I will know that the United States, the concept of democracy, and the rest of the world will have a fighting chance.

And for those who feel I'm overreacting, I hope you're right. I know there are those on the other side who feel the same way about Harris, but they would feel that way about any Democratic nominee. I think I'm basing my fear on facts and documented evidence, and they are basing theirs on fox news, elon musk, other right-wing media, and disinformation.

Best case scenario: Harris wins comfortably, you all were right, and I get some help while knowing the world will continue its messy path forward.
Next best case: Harris wins a nail biter, I'm not paranoid, and the world will continue its messy path forward.
All other scenarios are untenable. Idiocracy would almost be preferable.
 
I do not wish to make people feel hopeless. I just try to cull and share possibly relevant information as it becomes available.

I could discontinue the poll and turnout data posting here — it’s not like you can’t all find it easily enough if you want to do so.
Please continue to share. Information, even if it's just polls or even red-wave polls, gives us the opportunity to make informed decisions.
 
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