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2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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Let's be clear. There is nothing wrong with what Biden said. Even as misconstrued, it's accurate. I absolutely do not believe that stifling the truth is the right thing to do. I do not believe that will cost any significant votes that will not be more than made up as Republicans continue to expose their blatant hypocrisy. We've rolled over enough accepting their lies instead of making them back them up. If people can't see the clear distinction and we lose over this, I just don't care. We'll deserve to go to hell. We're never going to be worth a damn catering to abject stupidity.
I understand what you mean, and anyone who thinks what I'm advocating is "rolling over accepting their lies" or "stifling the truth" hasn't read my posts on this board or the old board for very long. It is certainly appropriate and important for Democrats to constantly attack the hypocrisy of sniveling turds like Vance and the entire conservative media ecosystem, in this and every other instance. But if you think politics in this country has ever not involved "catering to abject stupidity" then I have some beachfront property in Missouri to sell you. Because everyone of age gets a vote, the reality is that a huge proportion of the electorate is made up of idiots and people who are woefully uniformed. There's no way to ignore them or their votes. So anyone who wants to win an election of any kind has to take a pragmatic approach to wooing stupid, uninformed voters. We can wish all we want for a magical world where elections are decided only by the merits and policies of the candidates, but that world doesn't exist. Not in this country, not in any country. And we have to win elections in this world, not a hypothetical one.
 
Quite the opposite, in fact. He doubled down on it during his Hannity interview.
Yeah, this not a bosides comparison despite media insinuations.

Joe Biden was criticizing the Trump supporting comedian; Trump did his " Don't blame me, I don't know the guy" defense
 
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If we lose this election because an old man who isn’t even on the ticket made a verbal gaffe on a Zoom call, we were never, ever, ever winning this election at any point in the first place.
This ^. … and for those that have angst about Kamala not being ready/willing to voice how she would have presided differently than Biden, the ill made garbage comment is an opportunity. She has and can use this to demonstrate that she will communicate more effectively than the guy she has replaced on the ballot.
 
I understand what you mean, and anyone who thinks what I'm advocating is "rolling over accepting their lies" or "stifling the truth" hasn't read my posts on this board or the old board for very long. It is certainly appropriate and important for Democrats to constantly attack the hypocrisy of sniveling turds like Vance and the entire conservative media ecosystem, in this and every other instance. But if you think politics in this country has ever not involved "catering to abject stupidity" then I have some beachfront property in Missouri to sell you. Because everyone of age gets a vote, the reality is that a huge proportion of the electorate is made up of idiots and people who are woefully uniformed. There's no way to ignore them or their votes. So anyone who wants to win an election of any kind has to take a pragmatic approach to wooing stupid, uninformed voters. We can wish all we want for a magical world where elections are decided only by the merits and policies of the candidates, but that world doesn't exist. Not in this country, not in any country. And we have to win elections in this world, not a hypothetical one.
I was born in Truman's administration. I'm scarcely naive. It's that fact that helps me realize that always applying a general principle can easily lead to failure in specific cases. I think you're looking at two in a bush here and ignoring the thorns. You just don't give up important things for maybes.
 
The Guvernator explains how vote for Harris/Walz:


Should Trump win next week, historians will record that this was the year that Americans repudiated their democratic republic in favor of the establishment of a fascist autocracy
 
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NPR led off their 10:00 am and 11:00 am top-of-the-hour news reports with Biden’s gaffe reporting that he’d called Trump supporters garbage and that Harris had to disavow Biden’s comments.

NPR does yeoman’s work this election cycle ‘Bo-siding and sane-washing.
 


But please Mr. Sleepy Joe Brandon, please don’t call people who support him garbage!!! It might offend their delicate sensibilities!!
 
Should Trump win next week, historians will record that this was the year that Americans repudiated their democratic democracy in favor of the establishment of a fascist autocracy
One of the reasons that some people (like leftists) get fed up with trying to enact change within the existing political system is that throughout history, people will (mind-bogglingly) choose reactionary, repressive, autocratic governance over democracy and liberty, for a variety of reasons. I very much understand that frustration, even if I often very much disagree with their conclusions (i.e. that we just need to burn the whole thing down and start over).
 
First of all, I have a very low opinion of the electorate. Something like 80 million people are about to vote for Donald Trump. As I said: if you try to spend one minute inside the head of a low-propensity voter, or an "undecided" voter, you will go insane. You certainly will not find anything rational. Low-propensity voters are now heavily Trump leaning. Anything that risks turning out any of them who can barely muster the energy to vote is bad.

Second of all, even if you don't think the remark itself will directly change a single vote, it is going to divert a ton of campaign attention over the next week. Biden had to immediately backtrack from it. Walz has had to defend it. Josh Shapiro has had to defend it. Every major dem surrogate will be asked about it multiple times over the next few days. That is time and energy that should be spent on the messaging the campaign wants to get out. Instead it's spent explaining this away.

There is a reason Trumpworld is going into hyperdrive messaging over this. Of course they're craven hypocrites. Of course they're grievance politics grifters and grubbers whose attempts to appropriate victimhood for themselves and their supporters are laughable. Of course most normie voters will roll their eyes at this. But in a close election, at this stage of the game, anything that drives the campaign off message and into defensive mode is a bad thing. I'm not telling you to wring your hands about it over the next few days but refusing to acknowledge the possibility that it is a real thing that hurts the campaign is foolish.
Bullshit. it's already died down.
 
NPR led off their 10:00 am and 11:00 am top-of-the-hour news reports with Biden’s gaffe reporting that he’d called Trump supporters garbage and that Harris had to disavow Biden’s comments.

NPR does yeoman’s work this election cycle ‘Bo-siding and sane-washing.
And this is why I, a near daily listener for many years, more or less stopped listening to them.
 
The last 24-48 hours has shown everyone that the main reason Americans can’t come together is because of the media.

A comedian tells a joke that doesn’t do well and is mainly booed. Trump disavows the next day. Endless coverage of how this shows he is racist. There are plenty of examples of his racism. That is not one of them.

The president gets spun up about the remark and says oh yeah? Only trash thing is those guys! He immediately wishes he hadn’t said it. Endless coverage of how this show the Democrats hate Republicans.

We are kind of screwed because the country won’t ever get a timeout as long as the media does this and there’s no incentive to stop.
In what world did Trump disavow the comments? All he said is he never heard the joke, doesn’t know the comedian, and Puerto Rican people kiss him wherever he goes.
 
Anyone who thinks this won't potentially change some votes is naive. Don't try to assume that undecided or low-propensity voters act rationally. I hope it won't have a large effect, but to assume that it is irrelevant and can't matter at all is just the purest form of hopium. it's a stupid unforced error that Republicans will work hard to keep in the news cycle for the next week and is causing numerous campaign surrogates to have to spend time defending instead of focusing on message,
Disagree with pretty much all of this.

It’s not going to change any votes. It may reaffirm those that were already going to vote for Trump, but that’s it.
 
The last 24-48 hours has shown everyone that the main reason Americans can’t come together is because of the media.

A comedian tells a joke that doesn’t do well and is mainly booed. Trump disavows the next day. Endless coverage of how this shows he is racist. There are plenty of examples of his racism. That is not one of them.

The president gets spun up about the remark and says oh yeah? Only trash thing is those guys! He immediately wishes he hadn’t said it. Endless coverage of how this show the Democrats hate Republicans.

We are kind of screwed because the country won’t ever get a timeout as long as the media does this and there’s no incentive to stop.
His campaign APPROVED the "joke"
 
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