2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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ZenMode said:
I believe Congressional action would be required to "wipe out" social security, Obamacare, medicare, etc. Regarding EPA, or any government agency, the president can't unilaterally fire any federal employee he/she wants, so I'm not sure how that would realistically happen.

Regardless of who is President, states have state constitutions, governors and legislatures that can already do as they please, within the confines of the constitution(s).
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The Project 2025 Document goes into great detail how they would reclassify career employees so they can be replaced with political appointees.
 
Does anyone know how many "toss-up" states are going to have an abortion issue on the ballot?

Is this link current/correct: Which states could have abortion rights on the ballot in November?

The linked article suggests that Colorado, Florida, Maryland, Nevada, South Dakota, Arizona, and Nebraska will have abortion on the ballot. Republicans were successful in keeping it off the ballot in other states. I'm thinking that this will not affect the outcome in Colorado, Maryland, South Dakota, or Nebraska. I think those states are going to go the way they go regardless of an abortion amendment. But in Florida, Nevada, and Arizona, an abortion amendment on the ballot might get turnout up enough for those states to go Blue. Colorado and Maryland: going Blue regardless. South Dakota and Nebraska: going red regardless. But the Omaha electoral vote is probably going Blue regardless. I think an abortion amendment really might make a difference in Nevada and Arizona. But Florida, I hope it will make a difference and I think it could make a difference, but Florida has been such a fools' gold objective for Democrats for so long, it's hard to be optimistic.

But where an abortion issue on the ballot really could help in all seven states is in "down-ballot" races. It could really help in urban areas in all seven states and might help in some state-wide down-ballot races.
 
farce said:
The Project 2025 Document goes into great detail how they would reclassify career employees so they can be replaced with political appointees.
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Project 2025 is the brain child of lunatics. There's exactly zero chance Trump has read a single page of that document. He's already disavowed P2025.

Again, we're talking about what has a realistic chance of happening and a president ending/ruining the country is just not going to happen.

This type of hyperbole is par for the course during election time. Republicans said that if Biden won, they'd go door to door confiscating guns, outlaw home schooling, a national mask/vaccine mandate, free healthcare for illegal immigrants... the list was long.
 
CLT Heel said:
The irony is strong here. Many of my MAGA acquaintances said, after his assassination attempt, that it was a consequence of when you have democrats spouting nonsense and falsity about Trump ending democracy and calling Trump the next hitler. I said to them at that point that those comments are a direct outcome of trumps clear rhetoric that drummed up a view from the right that the country would not survive if the dems win the election. It’s clear that he has only doubled down on this theme.

The good thing is that beyond the MAGA, people have grown weary of this ridiculousness and are looking for hope and vision. And that is exactly what Harris and walz are providing - hope, vision, and positivity. So long as Trump continues this path, he has no chance.
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He’s too self-obsessed to understand this rhetoric is hurting him now.
 
ZenMode said:
Project 2025 is the brain child of lunatics. There's exactly zero chance Trump has read a single page of that document. He's already disavowed P2025.

Again, we're talking about what has a realistic chance of happening and a president ending/ruining the country is just not going to happen.

This type of hyperbole is par for the course during election time. Republicans said that if Biden won, they'd go door to door confiscating guns, outlaw home schooling, a national mask/vaccine mandate, free healthcare for illegal immigrants... the list was long.
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Oh?

www.brookings.edu

The risks of Schedule F for administrative capacity and government accountability | Brookings

Schedule F would lead to a reduction in administrative capacity, government performance, and accountability to the public and Congress.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

Weeks before the 2020 election, President Trump unveiled an executive order that would have created a new class of political appointee, Schedule F. The order would have allowed a president to turn any career official with a policy advisory role into a political appointee, removing job protection and opening the door to vastly politicize the federal workforce.

President Biden rescinded the order, but Trump has made it a central feature of his re-election campaign as part of his effort to take control of “the deep state.” It’s not just Trump. Schedule F has also been more broadly accepted among Republicans, featuring in the Mandate for Leadership guide that the Heritage Foundation produces for prospective Republican presidents.
 
ZenMode said:
Project 2025 is the brain child of lunatics. There's exactly zero chance Trump has read a single page of that document. He's already disavowed P2025.

Again, we're talking about what has a realistic chance of happening and a president ending/ruining the country is just not going to happen.

This type of hyperbole is par for the course during election time. Republicans said that if Biden won, they'd go door to door confiscating guns, outlaw home schooling, a national mask/vaccine mandate, free healthcare for illegal immigrants... the list was long.
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I don't disagree that Trump has probably not read a single word of Project 2025, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that the people that wrote that document are not some fringe part of the Republican party (which to be fair doesn't really conflict with them being lunatics). They're massively influential in Republican circles and buddies with Trump and everyone in his orbit.

Whatever name you call it, Project 2025 is what Republicans in this country believe and what they are going to try to implement if they get in power. Trump's disavowal of it is not worth the CO2 used to expel the words from his mouth.
 
It always amuses me that people either think, or pretend to think, that a president is like single-handedly the arbiter of what policy does and does not get implemented by his administration, completely ignoring that the vast majority of policy is implemented by staff, advisors, and appointees of the administration and not the president himself.
 
05C40 said:
Does anyone know how many "toss-up" states are going to have an abortion issue on the ballot?

Is this link current/correct: Which states could have abortion rights on the ballot in November?

The linked article suggests that Colorado, Florida, Maryland, Nevada, South Dakota, Arizona, and Nebraska will have abortion on the ballot. Republicans were successful in keeping it off the ballot in other states. I'm thinking that this will not affect the outcome in Colorado, Maryland, South Dakota, or Nebraska. I think those states are going to go the way they go regardless of an abortion amendment. But in Florida, Nevada, and Arizona, an abortion amendment on the ballot might get turnout up enough for those states to go Blue. Colorado and Maryland: going Blue regardless. South Dakota and Nebraska: going red regardless. But the Omaha electoral vote is probably going Blue regardless. I think an abortion amendment really might make a difference in Nevada and Arizona. But Florida, I hope it will make a difference and I think it could make a difference, but Florida has been such a fools' gold objective for Democrats for so long, it's hard to be optimistic.

But where an abortion issue on the ballot really could help in all seven states is in "down-ballot" races. It could really help in urban areas in all seven states and might help in some state-wide down-ballot races.
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It could also help in states adjoining a state with a referendum. Voters in parts of Pennsylvania & Georgia might get their news from Maryland and Florida.
 
Trump continues post his Trump-like things over at Truth Social, so maybe he let his campaign run the Twitter Account for now …



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lawtig02 said:
Oh?

www.brookings.edu

The risks of Schedule F for administrative capacity and government accountability | Brookings

Schedule F would lead to a reduction in administrative capacity, government performance, and accountability to the public and Congress.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

Weeks before the 2020 election, President Trump unveiled an executive order that would have created a new class of political appointee, Schedule F. The order would have allowed a president to turn any career official with a policy advisory role into a political appointee, removing job protection and opening the door to vastly politicize the federal workforce.

President Biden rescinded the order, but Trump has made it a central feature of his re-election campaign as part of his effort to take control of “the deep state.” It’s not just Trump. Schedule F has also been more broadly accepted among Republicans, featuring in the Mandate for Leadership guide that the Heritage Foundation produces for prospective Republican presidents.
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You have to wonder why he made that change at the end of his first term and not the beginning.

Trump clearly likes blind loyalty and "yes" men. Beyond the people who Presidents currently appoint, how many "career officials with a political advisory role" do you think there are? I honestly have no idea, but I can't imagine there's a lot when you consider the hundreds of thousands of federal employees that exist.

The system is designed so Presidents can't be Kings. Trump can surround himself with all the yes men he wants and they can hatch all kinds of stupid ideas, but true country-ending change would have to come into existence via legislation. Legislation can only come from Congress.
 
ZenMode said:
You have to wonder why he made that change at the end of his first term and not the beginning.

Trump clearly likes blind loyalty and "yes" men. Beyond the people who Presidents currently appoint, how many "career officials with a political advisory role" do you think there are? I honestly have no idea, but I can't imagine there's a lot when you consider the hundreds of thousands of federal employees that exist.

The system is designed so Presidents can't be Kings. Trump can surround himself with all the yes men he wants and they can hatch all kinds of stupid ideas, but true country-ending change would have to come into existence via legislation. Legislation can only come from Congress.
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1. The legislature has never been less powerful in this country. You can thank the SCOTUS conservatives for that.

2. Trump rolled out Schedule F when he did because he was tired of getting hampered by people in the administrative state and he thought he would roll Joe in 2020. What do you think he will do if he wins in November?

3. Trump’s own administration said Schedule F could let him fire at least 50,000 civil servants, but he didn’t think he would need to do so because once he fired several thousand, the rest would fall in line.

I used to share your belief that our system would not allow a president to become a king. That seems obviously false to me now. If the system didn’t prevent a domestic terrorist like Trump from becoming the candidate again for one of our two major parties, it will not stop him from doing what he wants if he regains power.
 
I don't know where to put this tweet but I'm so excited about it I'm throwing it in here because this is the kind of stuff that an administration should do for the citizens of our country and hopefully Kamala will continue down that path. Trump would make it so banks could reach through the phone and slap you in the face.



 
lawtig02 said:
1. The legislature has never been less powerful in this country. You can thank the SCOTUS conservatives for that.

2. Trump rolled out Schedule F when he did because he was tired of getting hampered by people in the administrative state and he thought he would roll Joe in 2020. What do you think he will do if he wins in November?

3. Trump’s own administration said Schedule F could let him fire at least 50,000 civil servants, but he didn’t think he would need to do so because once he fired several thousand, the rest would fall in line.

I used to share your belief that our system would not allow a president to become a king. That seems obviously false to me now. If the system didn’t prevent a domestic terrorist like Trump from becoming the candidate again for one of our two major parties, it will not stop him from doing what he wants if he regains power.
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Where did you hear #3? Link?
 


music video 80s GIF

If I listen to your lies, would you say
I'm a man (a man) without conviction
I'm a man (a man) who doesn't know
How to sell (to sell) a contradiction
You come and go, you come and go
 
ZenMode said:
Where did you hear #3? Link?
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/28/trump-plan-omb-schedule-f-nteu/

Trump’s order in 2020 was supposed to be limited in scope, only applying to employees “in positions of a confidential, policy-determining, policy-making, or policy-advocating character” — a category projected to affect about 50,000 workers.

But one agency’s documents, obtained from a Freedom of Information Act request by the National Treasury Employees Union (NTEU), indicate that in fact the Trump administration’s plans were far bigger.

At its annual legislative conference Tuesday, NTEU released more than 200 pages of records it obtained demonstrating how Russell Vought, Trump’s Office of Management and Budget (OMB) director, planned to include a huge swath of his agency’s workforce in the order.

Vought “absurdly stretched the definition of policy work to cover the vast majority of the OMB workforce, from attorneys to GS-09 assistants and specialists who have nothing to do with setting government policy,” NTEU said in a statement.
 
Trump has shared this video before (like a year or so ago?) with a musty Albert Guest poem that is read to sound a bit like Boris Karloff reading How The Grinch Stole Christmas 🎅



Meanwhile, by using old clips of Trump statements and speeches this one (unintentionally, I assume) emphasizes how old he looks and sounds now, IMO.

 
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