2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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05C40 said:
I agree with everything you say and appreciate the conciseness and clarity in your post. Just one thing to add. I am on a Medicare Advantage plan via Aetna. This is by far the best and cheapest, for me, medical insurance policy I have ever had in my life. Medicare for all would would quickly transform itself into a fundamental American right that people would wonder why it took so long to achieve.
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Which is why Republicans will fight it tooth and nail with much greater vigor than they even did Obamacare. Obamacare was actually based on a GOP program once promoted by Mitt Romney, of all people, and Republicans fought it fiercely and claimed it was socialized medicine and all the rest. And Trump has sworn that if he's elected again he'll destroy it this time for sure.

So if the GOP is that threatened by Obamacare, they'll fight Medicare-for-all with every resource and lie and tactic and money that they have left. And it all will be to oppose a program that in places like Australia has worked extremely well. And a big part of the problem, imo, is that there are simply too many people in this country that see healthcare as a privilege of being employed, and not as a human right. Looking back, we're extremely lucky that Medicaid got passed.
 
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So my wife comes home from the Obama rally and said waiting in line was very “Taylor Swift-esque” as people were exchanging bracelets and stickers. She was very unprepared for that, but she did bring home this sticker that someone gave her…

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Paine said:
All the liberals I know spend twice the effort fighting leftists than they do fighting conservatives.
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This is absolute bullshit. Liberals are the ones who are working to get Kamala elected and progressives are the ones threatening to stay home/vote 3rd party in a way that assists Trump.

If you don't want liberals to think poorly of you, then do everything you can to defeat conservatives and elect liberals.
 
Paine said:
Plenty of progressives are also working to get Kamala elected. Which again, makes it easy to see why a lot of progressives get bitter when they’re blamed for liberals losing.
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I'm pretty sure it's not liberals who are putting out warnings from progressives saying that progressives might not support Kamala.

If progressives want liberals to take them seriously, then share your concerns in private and publicly do everything you can to support Kamala's election bid.

But you can't be threatening the Democratic POTUS campaign less than 2 weeks before the election and then be bitter when those threats are taken seriously. Why should liberals take you seriously as a minority group among left-of-center voters when you can't even do everything you can get left-of-center candidates elected?

If Trump and the dangers he represents to the country, much less progressive ideals, aren't enough to get progressives on board for a mere liberal candidate, then I have no idea why liberals shouldn't blame progressives for the repercussions of progressives making perfect the enemy of good.
 


"Race is remarkably stable. 47% of country is MAGA or open to MAGA; 53% isn't. The goal of Harris-Walz is to coalesce as much of 53% as possible.

Today, Liz Cheney and Bernie Sanders are on the same side. That's not a bad coalition. The differences in polls are about the percentage of the 53% that Harris is getting. Trump stays stuck at 47%. If you were for Trump, you were for Trump months ago. You are looking for someone else to be acceptable. He's functioning as the incumbent.

Harris is winning a larger percentage of R's than Trump is of D's. She's winning independents. Could Trump win? Sure. But is there any element of the campaign that Trump campaign is performing at a higher level than Harris campaign? Think of it as a sports team match-up. She has better organization, more money, a better message and is performing at a much higher level than Trump. Most candidates are trying not to make mistakes at this stage of the presidential race. Exhaustion is a key factor. But Harris is improving. Maybe because she hasn't been a candidate for a year and a half.

In campaigns, the question you ask every night is would you rather be your campaign or the other guy? I'd rather be Harris."
 
Paine said:
This story exists because progressive leaders are worried about the support for Kamala Harris at the grassroots progressive level. If you’re implying that progressive leaders aren’t supporting Kamala Harris’ bid for the White House, I’d like to know who specifically you’re referring to.

Rashida Tlaib is the only person I can even think of who hasn’t endorsed Harris, and she has very personal ties to the slaughter taking place in Gaza, so I don’t fault her for that.

Just like liberal politicians don’t completely control the liberal vote, progressive leaning voters are going to make their own decisions regardless of what leaders in the progressive space say. It’s not a threat for progressive leaders to be flashing the red warning sign about support for Harris among their base.

Too many liberals on this board get their latest info on what’s happening in progressivism by listening to MSNBC or Pod Save America.
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The story exists because progressive leaders went public with warnings that could have been made in private and kept private. If those progressive leaders don't speak to the AP reporter, then there's no story as I can guaran-fucking-tee you that the Harris campaign wouldn't have put it out to the press.

And, yes, putting these warnings into the public sphere is certainly a threat. If it wasn't meant to be a threat, they would have been conveyed privately and kept there.

Again, if progressives can't be trusted to do everything possible to get left-of-center candidates, whether progressive or liberal, elected against conservative or right-wing candidates, then it should be clear why liberals won't accept progressives as full partners in the left-of-center political sphere.
 
Paine said:
You don’t think progressive leaders have relayed these fears in private previously? Really??? Establishment liberal Democrats have been relaying fears publicly about the administration’s policies re: Israel for months. Progressives were relaying these fears long before that. Biden has done nothing in response, and, so far, neither has Harris.
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Good grief, you've totally missed the point.

It's not the warnings that are the problem, it's making those warnings public less than 2 weeks before the election with voting underway in a way obviously designed to be a threat to the Harris campaign. Conversely, progressive leaders should be doing nothing but making positive public statements about Harris and the Harris campaign because electing a left-of-center candidate, whether liberal or progressive, should be the priority now.

At this point in the election calendar, everyone should be pulling in the same direction. And whomever is not should understand it will hurt their standing in the greater party.
 
Paine said:
My contention is that the warnings have been public for far longer. It’s not a threat, you’re just completely making that up. There is nothing for progressive leaders to threaten because again, they have no control over these voters.

Progressive leaders are campaigning for Harris day after day, just like liberals. People are allowed to voice their criticisms of the party, especially if they feel like a course correction is needed in order for Harris to win.
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A warning made publicly in February is less damaging than one made in July and both are less damaging than one made in late October. The only reason to make a public criticism of the campaign of the party your folks should ostensibly support at this point in the campaign is to state a threat. And these progressive leaders don't control their voters, but they can certainly influence their decision-making (and if they can't influence those voters, then they wouldn't be progressive "leaders").

No one is saying that anyone isn't "allowed" to voice criticisms of the party, but that doing so at this point in the campaign calendar is a stupid, stupid idea and that anyone who does so should understand that the party may blame them if the party loses and may not prioritize their concerns when the party regains power.
 
Paine said:
We’ll see what happens. I don’t think this Politico article is going to affect turnout of progressive voters. It’s going to be what the policy of the Harris campaign is or isn’t when they go vote (or don’t).
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This Politico article alone won't affect the race, but the lack of progressive leaders being anything short of full-throated in their support of Harris certainly will.

If we have a replay of 2016 where Dems lose a very, very close race and the statistical argument can be made that progressives voting 3rd party or not voting was one material difference, you can certainly expect that progressives will again have earned the derision of more mainstream Dems.

Of course, as usual, from the progressive perspective it's never the fault of progressives how they vote...it'll be Harris' fault that progressives don't do their part to put a left-of-center candidate into office.
 
Paine said:
Progressives are more than doing their part to get Harris elected. You’re discrediting yourself by saying that progressives and progressive leaders aren’t doing enough. That’s simply not true, and you’ve presented no evidence to back that up. That’s all I’ve got to say about it for now.
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The public article is the evidence.

There's no way that progressive leaders should be making public statements critical of the Harris campaign less than 2 weeks before the election.

The only people discrediting themselves are the progressive leaders quoted in that article and, even more so, the progressive voters who don't go to the polls to cast a ballot for Kamala Harris.
 

Harris Earns a Stunning Endorsement Over Trump​

Kamala Harris has earned an eleventh-hour show of support from Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim community leaders.​


newrepublic.com

“Extreme Danger”: Harris Earns a Stunning Endorsement Over Trump

Kamala Harris has earned an eleventh-hour show of support from Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim community leaders.
newrepublic.com newrepublic.com

“More than 100 Arizona Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, and progressive Democrats and community leaders have signed a letter making the case for those reluctant to support Kamala Harris against Donald Trump.

“We know that many in our communities are resistant to vote for Kamala Harris because of the Biden administration’s complicity in the genocide,” the letter, published Thursday night, reads.

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the letter continued. “As we consider the full situation carefully, however, we conclude that voting for Kamala Harris is the best option for the Palestinian cause and all of our communities.”

The letter describes an “awful situation where only flawed choices are available.”

“In our view, it is crystal clear that allowing the fascist Donald Trump to become President again would be the worst possible outcome for the Palestinian people. A Trump win would be an extreme danger to Muslims in our country, all immigrants, and the American pro-Palestine movement,” the letter states.

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“If our communities ally with the Green Party to defeat Harris, we risk marginalizing ourselves as they did by alienating the tens of millions of voters who support the cause of Palestinian freedom and are fighting to defeat Trump by electing her,” the letter continues.

The letter urges that after the election, they can hold Harris accountable with “every nonviolent tool of democracy.” Such tools would likely not be available under Trump, who has vowed to deport pro-Palestinian protesters and threatened to turn the military against his own citizens. …”
 
Paine said:
Progressives have tried to do that time after time. There’s always an excuse as to why progressive policy proposals aren’t being adopted. Now progressives are being sidelined for the Cheneys?
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Why do progressives (or, well, you) feel that appreciatively accepting the Cheneys and other disaffected repubs into the Dem coalition equates to progressives being "sidelined"? This sounds less like a policy issue than an attitude issue, else how could the word sidelined even come to mind? I really don't want this to come across as talking down to you, it's obvious you're voting for Kamala and that you support the broader liberal program that she represents, but why this feeling of being "sidelined" just b/c a group not characteristically associated with the Dems is getting some attention and love from the Harris campaign? Can't we all just get along? At least for the next 10 days? It's all hands on deck right now, we need every vote we can get. Let's just win now, then we'll have four more glorious years (at least) to get back to our regularly scheduled internecine bickering...
 
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