A Disturbing Email

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05C40 said:
It doesn't always happen. But I have seen over and over a person's personal political beliefs--that are entirely hypothetical--crumble in the face of the reality of the impact those hypothetical beliefs have on their own children. When it's happening to someone else, it's easy to spout nonsense. When it's happening to those we know and love, it can be transformative. Not always, some are so consumed by hate that they cannot be redeemed even by their own children.
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Want to know the scenario I have seen the most? Some uncomfortable, shallow relationship persists because cutting out the toxic parent means cutting out the rest of the family. Other family members insist that they ignore the jabs and small offenses because nothing is more important than faaaaaammmmmilllly. Sometimes those pleas work and the corpse of their relationship shambles on like the Walking Dead. Other times they give up and just go away. Both outcomes are similar, one just has fewer chairs at Thanksgiving.

I haven't seen many situations with open, explosive hate. I haven't seen grand transformations where everyone hugs it out. I've seen plenty of claims that love would have conquered all if only the child would have stuck around to realize it. I have seen children just decide it isn't worth the trouble. And while I don't have nearly enough information to say with any kind of certainty what is going to happen here, the small bit I've seen reeks of a nice, quiet estrangement in the future.
 
Lando said:
Want to know the scenario I have seen the most? Some uncomfortable, shallow relationship persists because cutting out the toxic parent means cutting out the rest of the family. Other family members insist that they ignore the jabs and small offenses because nothing is more important than faaaaaammmmmilllly. Sometimes those pleas work and the corpse of their relationship shambles on like the Walking Dead. Other times they give up and just go away. Both outcomes are similar, one just has fewer chairs at Thanksgiving.

I haven't seen many situations with open, explosive hate. I haven't seen grand transformations where everyone hugs it out. I've seen plenty of claims that love would have conquered all if only the child would have stuck around to realize it. I have seen children just decide it isn't worth the trouble. And while I don't have nearly enough information to say with any kind of certainty what is going to happen here, the small bit I've seen reeks of a nice, quiet estrangement in the future.
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Well, when my brother who had served his active duty time in the Navy and during his reserve commitment afterwards, became a conscientious objector and refused to serve in the reserves was sent to prison, my father, who was a Marine combat veteran of the South Pacific during WW2, stood by my brother, his son, and spoke out on his behalf during the trial. And afterward my father became an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War. And I have read of similar transformations involving same-sex preferences and gender transformations. As such, I never underestimate the transformative power of parental love.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
I got this from one of my best friends from college. We were groomsmen at one another's weddings. He's Catholic and has always been a Republican, but not a crazy one. We've traded birthday and holiday greetings for decades. Below is his edited response to my New Year's greeting. I wrote the following near the end of my email to him:

"I am apprehensive about the new year. I figure I've got a limited number of years left on this planet. To spend the next few watching this country descend further into more madness and depravity is well, disspiriting. We shall see, I fear. My apologies - politics and religion - my mother warned me against such things but sometimes I can't help myself."


Now the response:

"... Unfortunately, Claire <his youngest child> now claims to be "agender" and insists on they/them pronouns - and refuses to wear dresses of any kind. Sucked in by the political correctness of the culture. I do not agree with it, but do my best to maintain peace in the family as she still lives with us ...

We have really avoided the topic of politics in the past. We most likely have different political views. So here goes. My feeling is that we have dodged a bullet. (Warning - rant coming!) The Democrats have gone completely off the rails. Biological men in women's sports. Prosecution of grandmothers protesting abortions while George Floyd rioters are ignored. Our borders completely uncontrolled resulting in gangs taking over apartment complexes in Colorado, among other things. They nominated the most incompetent candidate who blew through a billion dollars in 90 days and still ended up in debt (cackle cackle). I'll stop here.

All this being said, there has been so much damage done that I agree with you - I am apprehensive as well. While I believe that the mainstream media has built a caricature image of Donald Trump, he is not a savior. The Deep State is extremely entrenched in this country, and one man cannot root it out. This country is now far from God and Jesus Christ, who is our real Savior. I think Satan's influence is unprecedented--and that we are in a worse situation than before the Flood. The massive debt that this country has run up (and built in both Democratic and Republican administrations - and Trump does not seem to be too bothered by it) I think will have disastrous consequences. (Just think of all the hashing and rehashing topics I have just raised.)

Well, on that cheery note, I wish you ... and the family the best! I hope I have not alienated you, old friend. I think we could have some good discussions and learn from each other ...."


Thoughts? Advice? Any need to respond at all? There are so many mixed emotions swirling in my heart. The whole thing makes me sad.
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You are not going to change his points of view so don't let it destroy your friendship but if you disagree with every point of view he stated, hopefully reading his email will help change some of yours.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
This never happened before MAGA. Now it happens all the time. That tells me all I need to know about where the problem lies.
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Disagree a little in that I think that it HAS happened prior to MAGA, but now with MAGA in full force, it's always loud, virulent, and posted all over social media for all to see. Years ago, things just stopped and people went on.
 
PandemicBlue said:
You are not going to change his points of view so don't let it destroy your friendship but if you disagree with every point of view he stated, hopefully reading his email will help change some of yours.
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This is a weak effort from a pathetic troll. Serious question: have you figured out that water flows downhill from mountains to sea? Because on the wild fire thread, you seemed completely unaware of that. Maybe you should, you know, focus on the basics before doing your zero-empathy, disaster-of-a-human-being schtick here.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
This never happened before MAGA. Now it happens all the time. That tells me all I need to know about where the problem lies.
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I think the problem lies with the general polarization of politics, which is at least partially due to social media, youtube, X, which allows any loon with an internet connection to become a source of news. When all we had was the evening news and newspapers, there wasn't the wide disparity in information.
 
ZenMode said:
I think the problem lies with the general polarization of politics, which is at least partially due to social media, youtube, X, which allows any loon with an internet connection to become a source of news. When all we had was the evening news and newspapers, there wasn't the wide disparity in information.
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When the evening new was a 15 minute broadcast as it was in the 50s, the coverage was a lot more concise and on point. The Equal Time rule was in effect for radio and TV so both sides got heard and gossip was the purview of National Enquirer, the Globe and their cousins. Oh well, maybe we'll grow up enough to recognize the need for some sort of agreed standard of what facts really are.
 
billybobblockhead said:
Disagree a little in that I think that it HAS happened prior to MAGA, but now with MAGA in full force, it's always loud, virulent, and posted all over social media for all to see. Years ago, things just stopped and people went on.
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There is research to dispute as to whether there is a quantitative or qualitative change, but watch the documentary The Great Hack for evidence that social media is the latter. Facebook and other sources worked algorithms intentionally designed to find what made people most angry and foster the most hatred of the other side, politically and ideologically. Increasing hatred on both sides politically benefited right wing goals. They used extant fear and hatred but also worked to uncover private specifics about individuals and target lies and distortions to them, one by one, that would further boost enmity, distrust and hatred. This benefited in an encompassing nexus of nightmare ideology and political outcomes, collecting Putin/Russia, American Republicans, Trump cult and Brexit.

This continues, and landed its biggest win so far in the 2024 American election.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
I got this from one of my best friends from college. We were groomsmen at one another's weddings. He's Catholic and has always been a Republican, but not a crazy one. We've traded birthday and holiday greetings for decades. Below is his edited response to my New Year's greeting. I wrote the following near the end of my email to him:

"I am apprehensive about the new year. I figure I've got a limited number of years left on this planet. To spend the next few watching this country descend further into more madness and depravity is well, disspiriting. We shall see, I fear. My apologies - politics and religion - my mother warned me against such things but sometimes I can't help myself."


Now the response:

"... Unfortunately, Claire <his youngest child> now claims to be "agender" and insists on they/them pronouns - and refuses to wear dresses of any kind. Sucked in by the political correctness of the culture. I do not agree with it, but do my best to maintain peace in the family as she still lives with us ...

We have really avoided the topic of politics in the past. We most likely have different political views. So here goes. My feeling is that we have dodged a bullet. (Warning - rant coming!) The Democrats have gone completely off the rails. Biological men in women's sports. Prosecution of grandmothers protesting abortions while George Floyd rioters are ignored. Our borders completely uncontrolled resulting in gangs taking over apartment complexes in Colorado, among other things. They nominated the most incompetent candidate who blew through a billion dollars in 90 days and still ended up in debt (cackle cackle). I'll stop here.

All this being said, there has been so much damage done that I agree with you - I am apprehensive as well. While I believe that the mainstream media has built a caricature image of Donald Trump, he is not a savior. The Deep State is extremely entrenched in this country, and one man cannot root it out. This country is now far from God and Jesus Christ, who is our real Savior. I think Satan's influence is unprecedented--and that we are in a worse situation than before the Flood. The massive debt that this country has run up (and built in both Democratic and Republican administrations - and Trump does not seem to be too bothered by it) I think will have disastrous consequences. (Just think of all the hashing and rehashing topics I have just raised.)

Well, on that cheery note, I wish you ... and the family the best! I hope I have not alienated you, old friend. I think we could have some good discussions and learn from each other ...."


Thoughts? Advice? Any need to respond at all? There are so many mixed emotions swirling in my heart. The whole thing makes me sad.
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I wouldn't respond. He sounds like a decent person and you won't be able to disabuse him of his political and moral beliefs or convince him that he's been misled by misinformation. People tend to believe what is consistent with their own views. Don't poke the bear.
 
finesse said:
When the evening new was a 15 minute broadcast as it was in the 50s, the coverage was a lot more concise and on point. The Equal Time rule was in effect for radio and TV so both sides got heard and gossip was the purview of National Enquirer, the Globe and their cousins. Oh well, maybe we'll grow up enough to recognize the need for some sort of agreed standard of what facts really are.
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The question is how you address those who get their news from Facebook memes and random people on Twitter/TikTok/YouTube.
 
He's probably also overreacting to his daughter identifying as agender. People tend to go full on to one side when something from the other side absolutely infuriates them.
 
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