A Disturbing Email

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superrific said:
Well, now we agree that neither one of us really knows what is going on there. So, maybe the best thing to do is not to judge people without knowing the situation. Maybe instead of saying that people shouldn't let politics come between their friendships, you could say that it is sad that it happens this way. Or wish people the best as they try to navigate their circumstances. Or maybe say nothing at all.

I'm not going to discuss this any further, especially not on this thread. My point has been made. It is in fact acceptable and even required in some cases to end friendships over things you characterize as politics. We don't have to try to be the arbiters of what is and isn't acceptable.

The OP asked for some thoughts and perhaps advice. He didn't ask for a freewheeling condemnation of people trying to navigate our political hell the best they can. He didn't ask for the thread to be derailed into silly musings. I think we've done enough already.
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Hold on.... my original comment, expressing shock, was based on the responses to the OP. Based on what was posted in the OP, I think we can safely say the tone was polite and friendly.

The topic expanded to a more general discussion about friendship and politics.

For the record, I'm not trying to arbitrate. I just gave an opinion.
 
BubbaOtis said:
Do we know the age of "Claire"?
Actions that could be viewed as enticing an underage kid away from home could result in some unwanted repercussions..
What about the Mom? Where's her head at on this?
What is the OP's existing relationship with the kid like?
Too many questions for me.....
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I didn't respond to Zoo_View's suggestion, but I'd say there are all kinds of issues with luring minors away from their parents. I mean, why not just buy a bag of candy, a van and spray paint the windows.
 
BoonetheAiredale said:
Don't know that politics enters into this statement:

All this being said, there has been so much damage done that I agree with you - I am apprehensive as well. While I believe that the mainstream media has built a caricature image of Donald Trump, he is not a savior. The Deep State is extremely entrenched in this country, and one man cannot root it out. This country is now far from God and Jesus Christ, who is our real Savior. I think Satan's influence is unprecedented--and that we are in a worse situation than before the Flood. The massive debt that this country has run up (and built in both Democratic and Republican administrations - and Trump does not seem to be too bothered by it) I think will have disastrous consequences. (Just think of all the hashing and rehashing topics I have just raised.)

If your world view has that the current state of the earth has more Satanic influence in it than before the Flood, and you are actively dismissing centuries of slavery or the extermination of the Jews, or the Chinese cultural revolution, or World Wars as having less satanic influence (given that you believe Satan is actively working in the world) then you and I, friends or not, are living foundationally different realities. I would be unclear on what shared experience or morals or beliefs our friendship resides.
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Well, they elected the anti-christ, so it seems pretty satanic.

Though I don't believe there is a satan or the opposite. 😁
 
ZenMode said:
I didn't respond to Zoo_View's suggestion, but I'd say there are all kinds of issues with luring minors away from their parents. I mean, why not just buy a bag of candy, a van and spray paint the windows.
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Luring? Did you use that word on purpose for the negative connotation?

I don't believe Zoo mentioned luring the girl away.

The exact quote is: "Offer Claire a loving home."

I don't believe he is talking about what you are talking about. It's actually sort of sick that you take the offering of a safe haven for someone that may be experiencing issues in their current living situation to be equal to predatory abduction.
 
UNCatTech said:
Luring? Did you use that word on purpose for the negative connotation?

I don't believe Zoo mentioned luring the girl away.

The exact quote is: "Offer Claire a loving home."

I don't believe he is talking about what you are talking about. It's actually sort of sick that you take the offering of a safe haven for someone that may be experiencing issues in their current living situation to be equal to predatory abduction.
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He seemed to imply getting the girl and her siblings to leave their home and go to the home of the poster.
 
ZenMode said:
There are a wide range of topics for disagreement. Clear infringement on basically every human right, slavery, is one end of that range. I've never heard any MAGA people supporting slavery.

Many of the primary areas of political disagreement are much more nuanced and both sides (yep, I said it) have valid concerns IF people take the time to try to listen to what is being said. Their concerns are sometimes based in lies that they've been convinced are true but, in their mind, they often believe they are doing what's right for the country.
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If you've never seen anyone MAGA support slavery, remind me to introduce you to the Republican nominee in 2024 for Governor of the State of North Carolina.

“Slavery is not bad. Some people need to be slaves. I wish they would bring it (slavery) back. I would certainly buy a few,"
--Mark Robinson

He received 2.2 Million votes from North Carolinians after that was widely published.

Let's not pretend there isn't wide support for a lot of grotesque shit with the MAGA crowd.
 
Lando said:
While we obviuously only have a tiny amount of information, that didn't read like a guy that was going to pick his child over some transitory political ideology. It sounded like a guy about to pick his political ideology over some transitory relationship with his kid.

"Sucked in by the political correctness of the culture. I do not agree with it, but do my best to maintain peace in the family as she still lives with us"

Those are the words of a guy who is running out the clock.
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We will have to agree to disagree about the transformative power that love for one's own children can have on even those who are the most adverse to our own political and societal opinions.
 
05C40 said:
We will have to agree to disagree about the transformative power that love for one's own children can have on even those who are the most adverse to our own political and societal opinions.
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That love can exist. Seen too many child abuse stats to believe it's a given. Hell, pray away the gay and such stuff isn't even considered child abuse by some people.
 
Lando said:
When does this inevitable transformation take place?
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It doesn't always happen. But I have seen over and over a person's personal political beliefs--that are entirely hypothetical--crumble in the face of the reality of the impact those hypothetical beliefs have on their own children. When it's happening to someone else, it's easy to spout nonsense. When it's happening to those we know and love, it can be transformative. Not always, some are so consumed by hate that they cannot be redeemed even by their own children.
 
Lando said:
Want to know the scenario I have seen the most? Some uncomfortable, shallow relationship persists because cutting out the toxic parent means cutting out the rest of the family. Other family members insist that they ignore the jabs and small offenses because nothing is more important than faaaaaammmmmilllly. Sometimes those pleas work and the corpse of their relationship shambles on like the Walking Dead. Other times they give up and just go away. Both outcomes are similar, one just has fewer chairs at Thanksgiving.

I haven't seen many situations with open, explosive hate. I haven't seen grand transformations where everyone hugs it out. I've seen plenty of claims that love would have conquered all if only the child would have stuck around to realize it. I have seen children just decide it isn't worth the trouble. And while I don't have nearly enough information to say with any kind of certainty what is going to happen here, the small bit I've seen reeks of a nice, quiet estrangement in the future.
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Well, when my brother who had served his active duty time in the Navy and during his reserve commitment afterwards, became a conscientious objector and refused to serve in the reserves was sent to prison, my father, who was a Marine combat veteran of the South Pacific during WW2, stood by my brother, his son, and spoke out on his behalf during the trial. And afterward my father became an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War. And I have read of similar transformations involving same-sex preferences and gender transformations. As such, I never underestimate the transformative power of parental love.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
I got this from one of my best friends from college. We were groomsmen at one another's weddings. He's Catholic and has always been a Republican, but not a crazy one. We've traded birthday and holiday greetings for decades. Below is his edited response to my New Year's greeting. I wrote the following near the end of my email to him:

"I am apprehensive about the new year. I figure I've got a limited number of years left on this planet. To spend the next few watching this country descend further into more madness and depravity is well, disspiriting. We shall see, I fear. My apologies - politics and religion - my mother warned me against such things but sometimes I can't help myself."


Now the response:

"... Unfortunately, Claire <his youngest child> now claims to be "agender" and insists on they/them pronouns - and refuses to wear dresses of any kind. Sucked in by the political correctness of the culture. I do not agree with it, but do my best to maintain peace in the family as she still lives with us ...

We have really avoided the topic of politics in the past. We most likely have different political views. So here goes. My feeling is that we have dodged a bullet. (Warning - rant coming!) The Democrats have gone completely off the rails. Biological men in women's sports. Prosecution of grandmothers protesting abortions while George Floyd rioters are ignored. Our borders completely uncontrolled resulting in gangs taking over apartment complexes in Colorado, among other things. They nominated the most incompetent candidate who blew through a billion dollars in 90 days and still ended up in debt (cackle cackle). I'll stop here.

All this being said, there has been so much damage done that I agree with you - I am apprehensive as well. While I believe that the mainstream media has built a caricature image of Donald Trump, he is not a savior. The Deep State is extremely entrenched in this country, and one man cannot root it out. This country is now far from God and Jesus Christ, who is our real Savior. I think Satan's influence is unprecedented--and that we are in a worse situation than before the Flood. The massive debt that this country has run up (and built in both Democratic and Republican administrations - and Trump does not seem to be too bothered by it) I think will have disastrous consequences. (Just think of all the hashing and rehashing topics I have just raised.)

Well, on that cheery note, I wish you ... and the family the best! I hope I have not alienated you, old friend. I think we could have some good discussions and learn from each other ...."


Thoughts? Advice? Any need to respond at all? There are so many mixed emotions swirling in my heart. The whole thing makes me sad.
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You are not going to change his points of view so don't let it destroy your friendship but if you disagree with every point of view he stated, hopefully reading his email will help change some of yours.
 
LosPollosHermanos said:
This never happened before MAGA. Now it happens all the time. That tells me all I need to know about where the problem lies.
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Disagree a little in that I think that it HAS happened prior to MAGA, but now with MAGA in full force, it's always loud, virulent, and posted all over social media for all to see. Years ago, things just stopped and people went on.
 
PandemicBlue said:
You are not going to change his points of view so don't let it destroy your friendship but if you disagree with every point of view he stated, hopefully reading his email will help change some of yours.
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This is a weak effort from a pathetic troll. Serious question: have you figured out that water flows downhill from mountains to sea? Because on the wild fire thread, you seemed completely unaware of that. Maybe you should, you know, focus on the basics before doing your zero-empathy, disaster-of-a-human-being schtick here.
 
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