At least 15 killed in New Orleans attack

[ZZLPHeels]

Fox is reporting multiple suspects in the attack but waiting for a more credible source to confirm (Fox also (apparently incorrectly) reported earlier that the suspect had illegally crossed the Southern Border).

Whenever there is an active shooter or terrorist attack, it is extremely common to have people report more than one attacker. That information usually turns out to be inaccurate.

 

[Icky Mettle]

Whenever there is an active shooter or terrorist attack, it is extremely common to have people report more than one attacker. That information usually turns out to be inaccurate.

As does information reported by Fox.

ETA: Based on current reports, it appears that this information may be accurate.

 

[Bobfripp]

1. "When I said that the criminals coming in are far worse than the criminals we have in our country, that statement was constantly refuted by Democrats and the Fake News Media, but it turned out to be true. "

NOT TRUE - and the perpetrator was an American citizen from Houston TX

Advancing Justice Through Science

The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) is dedicated to improving knowledge and understanding of crime and justice issues through science.

nij.ojp.gov

2. "The crime rate in our country is at a level that nobody has ever seen before."

NOT TRUE - at all

U.S. violent and property crime rates have plunged since 1990s, regardless of data source

www.pewresearch.org

Murders Plunge

We have good news to start your 2025.

www.nytimes.com

Trump lies as easily as he breathes.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Authorities reporting that they found and disposed of at least two explosive devices in the French Quarter. Also stated that they do not believe the suspect acted alone.

 

[JCTarheel82]

ESPN just announced during the Peach Bowl that the Sugar Bowl is being postponed.

 

[StoneColdTarHeel]

If he acted alone I don't know if I would call it a terrorist attack if he wasn't involved with some extremists group. Even if he had an Isis flag I would still think if it as a nut who just wanted a reason to do what he did. If others are involved then that would be different.

And now being reported that 15 have died.

 

[StoneColdTarHeel]

And just got a news alert that the FBI believes he was not solely responsible.

 

[Calheel]

If he acted alone I don't know if I would call it a terrorist attack if he wasn't involved with some extremists group. Even if he had an Isis flag I would still think if it as a nut who just wanted a reason to do what he did. If others are involved then that would be different.

And now being reported that 15 have died.

The San Bernardino shooting was terrorism, and so was the Pittsburgh synagogue, the El Paso Walmart, the Buffalo grocery store -- all lone wolf (or two wolves in the case of San Bernardino) who were radicalized on the internet. Terrorism is an idea, not a group of people.

 

[superrific]

The San Bernardino shooting was terrorism, and so was the Pittsburgh synagogue, the El Paso Walmart, the Buffalo grocery store -- all lone wolf (or two wolves in the case of San Bernardino) who were radicalized on the internet. Terrorism is an idea, not a group of people.

I agree with you for the most part. Still:

1. Surely we can agree that working in concert is relevant to that determination. Lone wolf doesn't have to mean non-terrorist, but it is a consideration.
2. This depends in part on the definition of terrorism.
3. I think the better way to make your last point is that terrorism is defined by the intentions of the perp(s), not their numbers.

 

[Calheel]

I agree with you for the most part. Still:

1. Surely we can agree that working in concert is relevant to that determination. Lone wolf doesn't have to mean non-terrorist, but it is a consideration.
2. This depends in part on the definition of terrorism.
3. I think the better way to make your last point is that terrorism is defined by the intentions of the perp(s), not their numbers.

3. Or not whether they had a co-conspirator.

In all of these cases, the perps are actively engaging with others in online forums. So, to an extent, they did work in concert with others. And the San Bernardino shooters actually did have some foreign travel, perhaps somewhat akin to the Boston bombers.

As for 2, yes the definition of terrorism is somewhat malleable. Just bring up Gaza-Israel on this board for a demonstration. But I am comfortable in saying that terrorism does not require two shooters -- one is plenty.

 

[Calheel]

ESPN just announced during the Peach Bowl that the Sugar Bowl is being postponed.

You now have 70,000 scared visitors to New Orleans -- significantly increasing the effectiveness of this attack. Unless the government did not feel it had sufficient time to secure the Sugar Bowl, this seems like a CYA move -- with officials not wanting to be blamed if another attack happens.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

You now have 70,000 scared visitors to New Orleans -- significantly increasing the effectiveness of this attack. Unless the government did not feel it had sufficient time to secure the Sugar Bowl, this seems like a CYA move -- with officials not wanting to be blamed if another attack happens.

I would tend to agree, except they think there might be more conspirators out there. But if its just an over abundance of caution, I say screw the terrorists.

 

[SnoopRob]

You now have 70,000 scared visitors to New Orleans -- significantly increasing the effectiveness of this attack. Unless the government did not feel it had sufficient time to secure the Sugar Bowl, this seems like a CYA move -- with officials not wanting to be blamed if another attack happens.

To be fair, if you have a terrorist attack like this one and you can't be sure that the attacker didn't act alone, it's probably best to temporarily postpone any gatherings of 70k people within the same area until you can be sure that you aren't putting those folks in any significant danger.

While CYA'ing gets a bad rap, it also leads folks to not take unreasonable risks that can be mitigated with some fairly simple actions.

 

[bridgetender]

You now have 70,000 scared visitors to New Orleans -- significantly increasing the effectiveness of this attack. Unless the government did not feel it had sufficient time to secure the Sugar Bowl, this seems like a CYA move -- with officials not wanting to be blamed if another attack happens.

I applaud the caution. Obviously, neither of us know the fine details of the investigation, but if there is even a slight possibility that more attacks are planned and the authorities haven't been able to secure the area, postponing the game is the only answer.

 

[hedge]

You’re giving them credit for this when there was an ISIS flag on the terrorist’s truck.

Ever heard of a false flag attack? I'm not saying that this is a false flag attack, but you certainly have zero information or knowledge that it's not...

 

[Calheel]

I applaud the caution. Obviously, neither of us know the fine details of the investigation, but if there is even a slight possibility that more attacks are planned and the authorities haven't been able to secure the area, postponing the game is the only answer.

If more attacks are planned, is it better to have everyone in one area that can be secured or all over town?

 

[Calheel]

To be fair, if you have a terrorist attack like this one and you can't be sure that the attacker didn't act alone, it's probably best to temporarily postpone any gatherings of 70k people within the same area until you can be sure that you aren't putting those folks in any significant danger.

While CYA'ing gets a bad rap, it also leads folks to not take unreasonable risks that can be mitigated with some fairly simple actions.

As I posted above, if more attacks are planned, is it better to have everyone in a secure area or spread over town?

 

[SnoopRob]

As I posted above, if more attacks are planned, is it better to have everyone in a secure area or spread over town?

I guess it depends on how well you can secure the "secure area".

If you can't be fairly certain of securing that area, then putting a lot of folks in a high-profile contained area just creates a target rich environment.

 

[Calheel]

I guess it depends on how well you can secure the "secure area".

If you can't be fairly certain of securing that area, then putting a lot of folks in a high-profile contained area just creates a target rich environment.

Right. And that was my qualifier in the post above. If you don't have enough time to secure the Superdome (including putting up k-rails and other barriers along all the walk ways) then take a day (assuming there is credible intelligence of co-conspirators and not just people scared of their shadows). But if there were the resources to secure the ingress and egress into the Superdome, then this reeks of CYA-ism.

 

[SnoopRob]

Right. And that was my qualifier in the post above. If you don't have enough time to secure the Superdome (including putting up k-rails and other barriers along all the walk ways) then take a day (assuming there is credible intelligence of co-conspirators and not just people scared of their shadows). But if there were the resources to secure the ingress and egress into the Superdome, then this reeks of CYA-ism.

There are other factors than just "time" at play, though, that you have to take into consideration.

You may have the time to reasonably secure the Sugar Bowl from known and predictable issues, but not from the unknown potential threat that this attack raises.

Additionally, securing a major bowl game takes a lot of law enforcement resources that are also probably in high demand following a significant terrorist attack. Even if you can reasonably secure the Sugar Bowl, is it worth the LEO resources cost when you also have a time-sensitive investigative & potential prevention task underway?

Finally, even if you're fairly confident that you can secure the Sugar Bowl and have the LEO resources to allocate, there is still value to taking a small amount of additional time to be very confident given the change created by this terrorist attack. That's not simply CYA'ing, that's taking steps to assure reasonable additional precautions against a late-breaking and potentially significant threat.