“Black peoples jobs”

Someone who can't legally work and has to be a "day laborer" shouldn't be allowed to put food on his family's table? Kick 'em out, amirite!
Not my point at all.

Personally, I’m totally fine with the amount of undocumented immigrants and workers we have in this country. If anything, we should make it easier for them to remain here and attain citizenship.

My point is that unless we totally overhaul our immigration system to better accommodate those workers/immigrants, people like the person I quoted will exploit that system in the name of cheaper wages.
 
Not my point at all.

Personally, I’m totally fine with the amount of undocumented immigrants and workers we have in this country. If anything, we should make it easier for them to remain here and attain citizenship.

My point is that unless we totally overhaul our immigration system to better accommodate those workers/immigrants, people like the person I quoted will exploit that system in the name of cheaper wages.
Then you should go back and modify your comment, if that is truly how you feel.
 
Because I work in the construction industry and it’s apparent that illegal immigration is changing the industry, clearly is. I feel like people in this thread and left wing pundits are insinuating it was a blanket statement and adding words he didn’t say. Plenty of things to criticize Trump for but I find this disingenuous.
How come nobody goes after the employers ?

Ahhh, it’s because they as much as republicans hate immigrants they love cheap, slave labor mire
 
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He’s not very eloquent with his wording but I’m failing to see how the sentiment of what he is saying is wrong? He isn’t saying all black people and Hispanics only work manual labor. But I get its election season.
Think on it a little more.
 
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He’s not very eloquent with his wording but I’m failing to see how the sentiment of what he is saying is wrong? He isn’t saying all black people and Hispanics only work manual labor. But I get it’s election season.
Why does he need to make the conversation exclusionary?

Additionally I don't see them "taking" jobs. They are needed to "fill" jobs.
 
Because I work in the construction industry and it’s apparent that illegal immigration is changing the industry, clearly is. I feel like people in this thread and left wing pundits are insinuating it was a blanket statement and adding words he didn’t say. Plenty of things to criticize Trump for but I find this disingenuous.
Fine, it's changing the industry. That's more or less irrelevant to the point, which is whether migrants are taking "black jobs." Let's be generous to Trump and translate "black jobs" as "jobs like any others that happen to be filled by black people." That's almost certainly not what he meant, but we'll go with it.

You can't make the determination that immigrants are taking "black jobs" simply by comparing labor force numbers, because you can't sort cause from effect. Are there fewer black people working in construction than overall in the population BECAUSE of immigrants? Or are immigrants taking jobs that other people don't really want, thus freeing other people to have jobs other than construction?
 
bullshit. I didn’t add words.

It’s not a zero-sum game.

As someone in the construction industry, perhaps you should advocate for paying workers a living wage instead of seeking under-the-table day laborers who tend to be undocumented immigrants.

bullshit. I didn’t add words.

It’s not a zero-sum game.

As someone in the construction industry, perhaps you should advocate for paying workers a commensurate wage and providing decent worker protections and compensation, instead of seeking under-the-table, uninsured day laborers who tend to be undocumented immigrants.

bullshit. I didn’t add words.

It’s not a zero-sum game.

As someone in the construction industry, perhaps you should advocate for paying workers a commensurate wage and providing decent worker protections and compensation, instead of seeking under-the-table, uninsured day laborers who tend to be undocumented immigrants.
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Fine, it's changing the industry. That's more or less irrelevant to the point, which is whether migrants are taking "black jobs." Let's be generous to Trump and translate "black jobs" as "jobs like any others that happen to be filled by black people." That's almost certainly not what he meant, but we'll go with it.

You can't make the determination that immigrants are taking "black jobs" simply by comparing labor force numbers, because you can't sort cause from effect. Are there fewer black people working in construction than overall in the population BECAUSE of immigrants? Or are immigrants taking jobs that other people don't really want, thus freeing other people to have jobs other than construction?
In my estimation part of what’s happening is illegal immigrants are more willing to take entry level jobs at lesser pay. Which brings down what companies expect to pay someone for entry level job. When you add in inflation and how ridiculous cost of living is now younger people can hardly afford to tough it out for a few years taking an entry level construction job before they get better pay. It’s why there is such a need for younger workforce in construction. If these companies didn’t have the ability to save costs hiring illegals they would be forced to treat those already employed and those thinking about starting a career in construction better. What I’ve seen happen is younger guys will leave and take a dead end job at Wal-Mart making 3-4 bucks more an hour instead of sticking it out because they can’t financially do it and can’t wait 3-4 years to start making decent money.
 
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In my estimation part of what’s happening is illegal immigrants are more willing to take entry level jobs at lesser pay. Which brings down what companies expect to pay someone for entry level job. When you add in inflation and how ridiculous cost of living is now younger people can hardly afford to tough it out for a few years taking an entry level construction job before they get better pay. It’s why there is such a need for younger workforce in construction. If these companies didn’t have the ability to save costs hiring illegals they would be forced to treat those already employed and those thinking about starting a career in construction better. What I’ve seen happen is younger guys will leave and take a dead end job at Wal-Mart making 3-4 bucks more an hour instead of sticking it out because they can’t financially do it and can’t wait 3-4 years to start making decent money.
OK, that's fair. What you're saying is that the availability of immigrant labor drives down wages. That has nothing to do with "black jobs," or anything Trump was talking about, right? We can agree on this point, right? It also has nothing to do with inflation, assuming that wages are keeping up with inflation (they are).

The idea that immigrants drive down wages in their new country is an old one. And in the short-run, it's not necessarily wrong. In the long-term, it is wrong, because immigrants consume as much as they produce. So immigrants maybe take a construction job that others don't really want. Well, that immigrant has to eat, so there's now more demand for restaurants. The person who might otherwise have been banging roofs can now be a cook. And the availability of immigrant labor means that more houses get constructed, which means more construction material has to be produced. So the would-be roofer might instead manufacture or distribute shingles. The immigrant will probably also buy a car, which means more auto industry jobs, etc.

The way to know that immigrants do not drive down wages or take jobs is to think about how much immigration we have had over the years. In the last century alone, there have been tens of millions of immigrants and even more children of immigrants -- and yet native-born citizens still have jobs. How about wages? Working-class Americans have a standard of living that is much higher than the middle-classes in developing world economies. Because, in the long-run, wages are determined mostly by productivity.

Economists have studied this question for literally millions of man-hours. The short-term effects of immigration on wages is a subject of some dispute, ASAIK. Nobody thinks it has a large effect on wages, but there are some economists who think it has a short-term effect; others look at the data and see no effect at all. ASAIK no economists -- no respected professional ones, at least -- think that immigration lowers wages over the long-term. In fact, the consensus is that immigration usually has a slightly beneficial effect on wages, though that's less true in a free trade economy.

Are we on the same page now?
 
it’s not contradictory at all. You’re reaching, and I have no idea why.
Yes, it is. And no, I'm not reaching.

In that post you are pushing for the non-hiring of "day laborers," which includes a lot of folks who are here legally but cannot work yet, in addition to those who are here and going through the process of becoming a legal resident, yet also cannot legally work. All of which need to support themselves, their family, and so on.

You seem to have the right stance on this subject, which is why I suggested you modify the post. But, you do you.
 
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In my estimation part of what’s happening is illegal immigrants are more willing to take entry level jobs at lesser pay. Which brings down what companies expect to pay someone for entry level job. When you add in inflation and how ridiculous cost of living is now younger people can hardly afford to tough it out for a few years taking an entry level construction job before they get better pay. It’s why there is such a need for younger workforce in construction. If these companies didn’t have the ability to save costs hiring illegals they would be forced to treat those already employed and those thinking about starting a career in construction better. What I’ve seen happen is younger guys will leave and take a dead end job at Wal-Mart making 3-4 bucks more an hour instead of sticking it out because they can’t financially do it and can’t wait 3-4 years to start making decent money.

Hiring these worker without documentation is illegal. Why aren’t these companies being punished for it?

Ahh that’s right, everyone loves cheap labor and cheating on their taxes except when it is used to rile up racists.
 
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Hiring these worker without documentation is illegal. Why aren’t these companies being punished for it?

Ahh that’s right, everyone loves cheap labor except when it is used to rile up racists.
Wait, you do realize that there are many folks here, who've fled horrible situations, that simply cannot work legally, yet, right? I'm not in favor of letting them starve. Hopefully you're not either.
 
Yes, it is. And no, I'm not reaching.

In that post you are pushing for the non-hiring of "day laborers," which includes a lot of folks who are here legally but cannot work yet, in addition to those who are here and going through the process of becoming a legal resident, yet also cannot legally work. All of which need to support themselves, their family, and so on.

You seem to have the right stance on this subject, which is why I suggested you modify the post. But, you do you.
Yes, you’re reaching. And it’s clear you mis-read or misunderstood my post. But you do you, keep digging your heels in.

I am not pushing anything. In that post, I’m simply suggesting that if the poster I responded to was genuinely concerned about the number of construction jobs that are taken by undocumented workers (ie, in his view, jobs that would otherwise go to black or Hispanic US citizens), one remedy would be to increase the pay for construction workers—as opposed to relying on the low-cost labor of undocumented immigrants.

There is no inconsistency between that stance and the rest of my posts.

Given that construction companies need low-cost labor, they do not want to increase the pay of construction workers—so there will always be a need for “day laborers”.
 
Wait, you do realize that there are many folks here, who've fled horrible situations, that simply cannot work legally, yet, right? I'm not in favor of letting them starve. Hopefully you're not either.
Why are those people being criminalized versus the employers that hire them, illegally?
 
Yes, you’re reaching. And it’s clear you mis-read or misunderstood my post. But you do you, keep digging your heels in.

I am not pushing anything. In that post, I’m simply suggesting that if the poster I responded to was genuinely concerned about the number of construction jobs that are taken by undocumented workers (ie, in his view, jobs that would otherwise go to black or Hispanic US citizens), one remedy would be to increase the pay for construction workers—as opposed to relying on the low-cost labor of undocumented immigrants.

There is no inconsistency between that stance and the rest of my posts.

Given that construction companies need low-cost labor, they do not want to increase the pay of construction workers—so there will always be a need for “day laborers”.
Hiring day laborers under the table/cash is not legal.
 
I understand that. Still, it’s a common practice.
Why is that acceptable but being here undocumented isn’t? When was the last time you saw someone go to jail for hiring someone undocumented?

Republicans love undocumented workers. Rich people love them. They only hate them to rile you all up. That’s why the solutions they propose aren’t real. They don’t want the ‘problem’ to go away.
 
Why is that acceptable but being here undocumented isn’t? When was the last time you saw someone go to jail for hiring someone undocumented?

Republicans love undocumented workers. Rich people love them. They only hate them to rile you all up. That’s why the solutions they propose aren’t real. They don’t want the ‘problem’ to go away.
No argument from me—I agree with you.
 
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