Daniel Penny Trial

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ZZLPHeels

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High profile trial appears to be coming to an end. Manslaughter charge was dismissed, jurors are now debating a lesser charge.


For those unfamiliar, Penny was charged with manslaughter after placing a man in a chokehold on an NYC Subway train last year. The victim had evidently been threatening to harm people on the train.
 
Don't know anything about the case. One thing that stands out from a cursory scan is that, whatever else was going on, there shouldn't have been a six minute response time. That's screwed up.
 
Thank Goodness. The only reason Penny was indicted was to placate the left wing mob in NYC.
 
By that logic, guilty verdicts in other cases are a message to the DA that his priorities align with the populace and enjoy wide support.

Or, it could be, every case and every jury are distinct and should not be widely extrapolated.
You have to admit a lot of political pressure in this case.

“To say anything else is an equivocation that will only further a narrative that devalues the life of a Black, homeless man with mental health challenges and encourages an attitude of dehumanization of New Yorkers in greatest need,” New York City’s public advocate, Jumaane Williams, said of the Marine Corps veteran.

Jordan Neely was murdered,” said Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,

AOC mourned the “public execution” of a man whose only crime was to be “houseless and crying for food in a time when the city is raising rents and stripping services to militarize itself while many in power demonize the poor.”

He had the audacity to publicly yell about that massive injustice, so they killed him.” New York governor Kathy Hochul
 
Thank Goodness. The only reason Penny was indicted was to placate the left wing mob in NYC.
He had him in a headlock for six minutes. I think they overcharged him, but every one of us has an obligation not to use more force than is necessary to protect others. It is beyond debate that he used more force than was necessary. Did his excessive force cross over into the criminal negligence? That was a close question and one the jury evidently struggled with for awhile before rendering its not guilty verdict.

Certainly, there was tremendous pressure to charge in this case. And I doubt the DA was surprised with the not guilty verdict. But it was not an outrageous case to bring.

Penny is certainly less criminally culpable than Rittenhouse or Zimmerman, and both of those guys were acquitted. But at the same time, he acted unreasonably in the situation. You should not keep another human being (especially a mentally unwell, skinny person) in a headlock for six minutes.
 
He had him in a headlock for six minutes. I think they overcharged him, but every one of us has an obligation not to use more force than is necessary to protect others. It is beyond debate that he used more force than was necessary. Did his excessive force cross over into the criminal negligence? That was a close question and one the jury evidently struggled with for awhile before rendering its not guilty verdict.

Certainly, there was tremendous pressure to charge in this case. And I doubt the DA was surprised with the not guilty verdict. But it was not an outrageous case to bring.

Penny is certainly less criminally culpable than Rittenhouse or Zimmerman, and both of those guys were acquitted. But at the same time, he acted unreasonably in the situation. You should not keep another human being (especially a mentally unwell, skinny person) in a headlock for six minutes.
Why did it take that long for someone to get there? I expect that he had no plans of holding it for six minutes but how do you let go? I haven't followed the case and I have no idea why he felt the need to be involved but once he did get involved I don't see where he can change his mind and quit.
 
He had him in a headlock for six minutes. I think they overcharged him, but every one of us has an obligation not to use more force than is necessary to protect others. It is beyond debate that he used more force than was necessary. Did his excessive force cross over into the criminal negligence? That was a close question and one the jury evidently struggled with for awhile before rendering its not guilty verdict.

Certainly, there was tremendous pressure to charge in this case. And I doubt the DA was surprised with the not guilty verdict. But it was not an outrageous case to bring.

Penny is certainly less criminally culpable than Rittenhouse or Zimmerman, and both of those guys were acquitted. But at the same time, he acted unreasonably in the situation. You should not keep another human being (especially a mentally unwell, skinny person) in a headlock for six minutes.
Please forgive my pedantry, but as someone who has handled cases involving strangulation and who recreationally strangles people, he (Neely) was not in a headlock.

The technical term for what he (Penny) used is a rear naked choke. A headlock is generally a transitional or control hold which does not constrict either the blood vessels of the neck or the airways. A rear naked choke is a blood choke which can, when implemented correctly, sufficiently constrict the blood vessels in the neck such that the victim loses consciousness within 10 seconds.

Anyone trained in any type of grappling recognizes that the hold that Penny used can cause permanent injury in less than a minute. He held on five times that long.
 
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Good to know that I can kill any homeless or transient types that are saying wild things on the street.
 
Good to know that I can kill any homeless or transient types that are saying wild things on the street.
Although I agree with Cal and SP, I've also seen many deranged people on the subway. It's very easy to believe that Neely put everyone in his proximity in apprehension of immediate danger, and that attempting to subdue him was reasonable. Choking him to death, not so much.
 
Good to know that I can kill any homeless or transient types that are saying wild things on the street.
Nah it’s not at all this simple. Irrespective of this particular case, it’s an enclosed space underground with no police or even a conductor in the immediate vicinity, with no cell phone coverage as the train is moving between stations. When you’re down there (and especially between stations), in the moment, you’re pretty much on your own — EXCEPT for whoever might step in. And we have the stories of increased slashings and stabbings and people getting pushed onto the tracks (especially since the pandemic) drilled into our consciousness, these incidents often occurring on lines and at stations that we all frequent. And whether it’s actually true, it certainly seems like a lot of people these days are carrying blades, box cutters, kitchen knives… so any incident that starts out as minor or seems to be minor has potential to become very dangerous, or even fatal. And there’s no x-ray vision into a guy’s pockets to see whether a weapon like that is in there.

This whole thing is tragic for all parties, and the real spotlight needs to be on city government for its failures to address these growing issues with mental health among the homeless, and the violence that can result.

But for as much as Jordan Neely seems to have been failed by his family (probably) and “society” for lack of a better term, the fact is that he had dozens of priors and several were for assault (at least one on a woman I’m pretty sure), and had synthetic marijuana in his system contributing to his tirade… so he was no longer the smiling harmless Michael Jackson impersonator in that moment. And he hadn’t been that for quite some time. So the situation on that train was known only to the people who were on that train, and at least some of them (including children) feared for their lives. A teenaged girl testified that she nearly fainted as he approached her because she was so scared. It’s a different situation down there. You can’t easily just walk or run away. It’s sometimes possible to move into another car on the train, but sometimes not possible or feasible. So you’re pretty much stuck with whatever goes on for sometimes several minutes at a time, until the doors open at the next station. I’ve been there, with guys raving and acting aggressively in people’s faces — it’s head down, eyes up, look at the guy’s hands to see if he’s holding anything or has fists balled up, and glance around at others to see who might be ready to help if something goes down. So, try to imagine that situation before casting judgment with such certainty. Because that’s something like what happened here. Not just a crazy guy screaming on a street corner that can be easily avoided.

Would’ve been ideal for Neely to have gotten (and submitted to) the help he needed for his diagnosed schizophrenia before an incident like this would’ve even occurred. Would’ve been ideal for police to have been on the scene sooner to deescalate the situation and pull him off the train and get him help. Would’ve been ideal if Penny hadn’t restrained him so long in such a way that would end up like this.

But this, to me, has never been cut and dried with any villains or heroes. It’s just fucking tragic all around.
 
I’ve read conflicting things about this. But I think he was already unresponsive by the time cops got there.
In the video, Penny rolls Neely onto his side when he loses consciousness. I don't know if he stayed unconscious until medical personnel arrived, but he apparently had a pulse.
 
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