Daniel Penny Trial

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Ramrouser said:
BLM/Left doesn’t want to hear this. Penny was a white man vigilante who targeted and murdered a black man for being “loud.”

Did you watch the post trial press conference by BLM?
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These are just grifters, best to ignore. The guy race baiting was also wearing a Yankees cap and a cross.
 
AlbionAmerican said:
I too blame the cities, there's plenty of problems to go around, however the fact is there's a lot of unstable people in NYC. I lived there for a period of time and once had a very scary interaction with some whacked out dude on the street who nearly attacked me. If in that moment, someone came to my assistance to hold the guy down, the last thing I'd be doing is saying the guy helping me is playing executioner.
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I live in LA...especially post covid ish is a mess and completely unacceptable.

i'm about as liberal as they come, but we gotta do better... I travel a lot to work and it can be done.

We can do a better job with them, but force, rehab centers and insane asylums...or maybe somewhere to go live off the land. Not participating in society but living off of it AND harassing ppl(AND THE SMELLS) is just ridiculous and I don't even get the worst every day.

Tent cities on LA sidewalks, crazies lurking on the train? Yeah, we know how to deal with it but man WHY?

Rant over.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
You think this dude was still even coherent after 2-3 minutes? Make no mistake, he choked ALL the life out of him.

If you saw that in a street fight, regardless of fault, people would be screaming or intervening...its just that the crazy dude created an unsympathetic audience/jury for himself.
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I haven't followed it at all. I saw the comment about the victim being in the hold for six minutes and it occurred to me that, whether he wanted to or needed to, that was a long time without anyone intervening. In the course of reading this thread, if also struck me that, if it were right for Penny to take the initial action, then how would or could this end without intervention of some kind.

I don't know and really don't have much interest in the rest of the facts. The jury heard those in greater detail than I ever will has made their decision. That's how this is supposed to work for both sides. Those two details niggle.
 
finesse said:
I haven't followed it at all. I saw the comment about the victim being in the hold for six minutes and it occurred to me that, whether he wanted to or needed to, that was a long time without anyone intervening. In the course of reading this thread, if also struck me that, if it were right for Penny to take the initial action, then how would or could this end without intervention of some kind.

I don't know and really don't have much interest in the rest of the facts. The jury heard those in greater detail than I ever will has made their decision. That's how this is supposed to work for both sides. Those two details niggle.
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It does seem like an awful long time, especially if he was unconscious. I could see holding on to some crazy nut and not knowing what to do then And the fear that if you let him go, he might start attacking or pull a weapon or whatever. Like the dog that catches the car. But once the guy kind of slumps, I think I would relax a little or even let him go.
 
StrangePackage said:
There are any number of other ways to restrain someone. Even more when they're unconscious.

This is analogous to shooting someone to stop a crime. If you subsequently walk up and shoot them again while they're bleeding on the ground, you're probably going to be charged with homicide.
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I guess it's my fault in assuming that the hold was maintained because the assailant continued to struggle. If he were unconscious, that's a great deal different. Still doesn't explain the six minutes. That seems like a slow response.
 
finesse said:
I don't get the logic. If he had grounds to legitimately intervene in protection of someone else and does, how and when does he disengage? He's greatly aggravated the assailant. Does he let him go, offer to shake hands and apologize? I don't get it. Seems to me like he's stuck with it. I still want to know where everybody else, especially official figures, was.
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You can restrain someone without choking them. It happens all the time. Shoot, he was strong enough that he could just wrap his arms around the guy.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
Yeah these crazies also shouldn't be able to act like that around people... I blame the cities.

I think the choker probably snapped, but without video, it will be hard to convict... show someone to death means you are completely in control the situation situation and lost regards to life.

I wouldn't send that guy to jail, but we can't have randoms out here playing executioner.

This is the city and the bum's fault ultimately imo...send him home. Let him get away with this one...after the fear of jail.
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There was video. And there was at least one passenger who warned Penny that he was killing the guy.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
You think this dude was still even coherent after 2-3 minutes? Make no mistake, he choked ALL the life out of him.

If you saw that in a street fight, regardless of fault, people would be screaming or intervening...its just that the crazy dude created an unsympathetic audience/jury for himself.
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"Make no mistake, he choked ALL the life out of him."

Neely had a pulse when police arrived .

nypost.com

Shocking footage played at Daniel Penny trial shows officers saying Jordan Neely had a pulse

“I feel a pulse,” one officer said, as a second officer confirmed that Neely “has a pulse.”
nypost.com nypost.com
 
finesse said:
Still doesn't explain the six minutes. That seems like a slow response.
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At least part of that time (some amount of time under a minute), nobody was alerted because the train was between stations. Once the train got to the next station, passengers held the doors so that the train couldn’t proceed, and several people alerted the conductors and/or called 911.

So you have to expect that all of that amounted to at least a couple minutes of the response time. From that point on, it would’ve been about 4-5 mins before the cops and emergency responders arrived. That certainly doesn’t sound too fast but it doesn’t sound exceedingly slow for something that was probably called in as “a fight between two guys on the subway” which didn’t involve gunfire, etc.
 
duluoz said:
At least part of that time (some amount of time under a minute), nobody was alerted because the train was between stations. Once the train got to the next station, passengers held the doors so that the train couldn’t proceed, and several people alerted the conductors and/or called 911.

So you have to expect that all of that amounted to at least a couple minutes of the response time. From that point on, it would’ve been about 4-5 mins before the cops and emergency responders arrived. That certainly doesn’t sound too fast but it doesn’t sound exceedingly slow for something that was probably called in as “a fight between two guys on the subway” which didn’t involve gunfire, etc.
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4-5 minutes is exceptionally fast for the police in most cases. A random call about a fight would probably get a 30+ minute response time in most of the US, regardless of urban or rural.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
4-5 minutes is exceptionally fast for the police in most cases. A random call about a fight would probably get a 30+ minute response time in most of the US, regardless of urban or rural.
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The subway system is a closed one and shouldn't have the same response times, it seems. I did find out that there isn't a really heavy presence on the subway and why. I was amazed at the relative safety of the system.


Violence in the subway remains a specific point of concern. The NYPD says it recorded a total of 570 assaults on the system last year—the most since at least 1996 and around a 2.5 percent increase over 2022.

But it’s worth noting a few things about how this fits into overall perceptions of safety. The MTA logged more than 1 billion subway rides last year. Assaults remain a vanishingly rare occurrence across the system. But this context quickly gets buried under tireless, tabloid-driven media coverage of outlier incidents.
 
finesse said:
The subway system is a closed one and shouldn't have the same response times, it seems. I did find out that there isn't a really heavy presence on the subway and why. I was amazed at the relative safety of the system.


Violence in the subway remains a specific point of concern. The NYPD says it recorded a total of 570 assaults on the system last year—the most since at least 1996 and around a 2.5 percent increase over 2022.

But it’s worth noting a few things about how this fits into overall perceptions of safety. The MTA logged more than 1 billion subway rides last year. Assaults remain a vanishingly rare occurrence across the system. But this context quickly gets buried under tireless, tabloid-driven media coverage of outlier incidents.
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FWIW there’s a much more noticeable police presence in the subway system these days. They had to step it up over the past ~2 years due to the increasing number of incidents and public demand. It’s now common to see a pair of uniformed cops on each platform.
 
How much if any does Penny getting a not guilty verdict instead of deadlocked jury help him in his upcoming civil case?
 
Meanwhile, in Raleigh, jury selection is beginng for the owner of Taz's. Tasieer himself stabbed a guy 4 times in the chest, killing him because he thought he was stealing. The victim was unarmed. Will be interesting to see the contrasts of support vs attacks from you fellas in this case. For the record, the victim was also a long time drug addict like Jordan Neely, although he had not been arrest 42 times nor arrested3 times for attacking women on a subway.
 
Batt Boy said:
Meanwhile, in Raleigh, jury selection is beginng for the owner of Taz's. Tasieer himself stabbed a guy 4 times in the chest, killing him because he thought he was stealing. The victim was unarmed. Will be interesting to see the contrasts of support vs attacks from you fellas in this case. For the record, the victim was also a long time drug addict like Jordan Neely, although he had not been arrest 42 times nor arrested3 times for attacking women on a subway.
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Thought he was stealing but he wasn’t? What was he doing that prompted the stabbing?
 
Geisterfahrer said:
Thought he was stealing but he wasn’t? What was he doing that prompted the stabbing?
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It sounds like maybe the owner accused him of stealing and they got into an argument and then the owner stabbed him four times? Unless the guy was attacking the store owner or legitimately threatened to attack him, that owner is taking a murder rap.

Also saw that the victim had been charged in previous incidents with heroin possession and breaking and entering into a Cary restaurant.
 
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