Daniel Penny Trial

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finesse said:
I'm guessing that there will be some sort of video. We'll see what the jury says.
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There was video shown in the criminal trial. Witnesses were telling Penny he was going to kill Neely. And he did.

Fortunately, the bar is a lower for a civil trial so one or two vigilante fetishists are less likely to save Penny from a modicum of justice.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
There was video shown in the criminal trial. Witnesses were telling Penny he was going to kill Neely. And he did.

Fortunately, the bar is a lower for a civil trial so one or two vigilante fetishists are less likely to save Penny from a modicum of justice.
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The victim in this case was threatening to kill people on the subway and had a criminal record of violently and savagely attacking random strangers. His family will get nothing.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
There was video shown in the criminal trial. Witnesses were telling Penny he was going to kill Neely. And he did.

Fortunately, the bar is a lower for a civil trial so one or two vigilante fetishists are less likely to save Penny from a modicum of justice.
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Neely had a pulse when police arrived .

nypost.com

Shocking footage played at Daniel Penny trial shows officers saying Jordan Neely had a pulse

“I feel a pulse,” one officer said, as a second officer confirmed that Neely “has a pulse.”
nypost.com nypost.com
 
ZenMode said:
Neely had a pulse when police arrived .

nypost.com

Shocking footage played at Daniel Penny trial shows officers saying Jordan Neely had a pulse

“I feel a pulse,” one officer said, as a second officer confirmed that Neely “has a pulse.”
nypost.com nypost.com
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You should read the sworn testimony of the ME, as well as that of the marine sergeant who trained Penny and other witnesses who were there and didn’t think Neely was unusually threatening. Penny used a lethal hold, held it for several minutes even after the passengers he claimed to be protecting had left the car and ignored pleas from other passengers to release his choke on Neely. When a guy you’re choking shits himself it’s well past time to stop.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
Lol. I wonder why he wasn’t willing to get on the stand and say any of that under oath.
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I don't know if he was willing to, but he doesn't need to. His lawyers ultimately decide the strategy, with his agreement.

It's the state's responsibility to prove he's guilty, not his job to prove he's innocent.
 
StrangePackage said:
There are any number of other ways to restrain someone. Even more when they're unconscious.

This is analogous to shooting someone to stop a crime. If you subsequently walk up and shoot them again while they're bleeding on the ground, you're probably going to be charged with homicide.
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BlooVooDoo said:
Lol. I wonder why he wasn’t willing to get on the stand and say any of that under oath.
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Why do you wonder that?
 
ZenMode said:
This is from a year ago. It puts a different perspective on things.

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Interesting. I’ve followed the case to some degree since it all happened, but somehow I’d missed this video. I don’t think there’s anything too controversial in these statements, everything in there seems to have been corroborated pretty much… other than maybe the timing of the chokehold (between 5 vs. 6 mins), and not everyone hearing “I WILL KILL YOU” spoken directly. Some heard “I WILL KILL” and at least a couple didn’t hear those things at all.

The most interesting thing to me is that he said he was calibrating his grip based on Neely’s resistance. I don’t know whether that was corroborated by witnesses, if they were even able to tell. I believe he thought he was calibrating, but whether or not his calibration had the desired effect is far less clear.

I also didn’t know Neely was relatively tall. I knew Penny was a decent sized guy, but that puts Neely at 6’3” or more. Makes it even more imposing when someone that size is lunging in people’s faces. And make no mistake, he was lunging at people right in their faces while he yelled.

Like I’ve said before, the whole thing is tragic. But IMO it’s still not nearly as cut and dried as many on either side try to make it seem.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't know if he was willing to, but he doesn't need to. His lawyers ultimately decide the strategy, with his agreement.

It's the state's responsibility to prove he's guilty, not his job to prove he's innocent.
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I don’t disagree. Merely pointing out that the video you posted is worthless.
 
duluoz said:
Interesting. I’ve followed the case to some degree since it all happened, but somehow I’d missed this video. I don’t think there’s anything too controversial in these statements, everything in there seems to have been corroborated pretty much… other than maybe the timing of the chokehold (between 5 vs. 6 mins), and not everyone hearing “I WILL KILL YOU” spoken directly. Some heard “I WILL KILL” and at least a couple didn’t hear those things at all.

The most interesting thing to me is that he said he was calibrating his grip based on Neely’s resistance. I don’t know whether that was corroborated by witnesses, if they were even able to tell. I believe he thought he was calibrating, but whether or not his calibration had the desired effect is far less clear.

I also didn’t know Neely was relatively tall. I knew Penny was a decent sized guy, but that puts Neely at 6’3” or more. Makes it even more imposing when someone that size is lunging in people’s faces. And make no mistake, he was lunging at people right in their faces while he yelled.

Like I’ve said before, the whole thing is tragic. But IMO it’s still not nearly as cut and dried as many on either side try to make it seem.
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One of the witnesses testified that Penny was “in a trance” as he ignored pleas to release Neely. Also, Neely was supposedly 6’1” 150lbs, which puts him somewhere between a stick and a beanpole.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
One of the witnesses testified that Penny was “in a trance” as he ignored pleas to release Neely. Also, Neely was supposedly 6’1” 150lbs, which puts him somewhere between a stick and a beanpole.
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I haven’t seen those numbers but if they’re accurate, then they were about the same height, though Penny has a bigger build.

But either way, that’s plenty big enough to be imposing while on an aggressive tirade fueled by schizophrenia and synthetic marijuana. Which as I understand, the substance intensifies schizophrenia and violent behavior.

I’m humble enough to know that until someone like that is lunging at a woman and her 5 year old (among others) in an enclosed space right in front of me with potentially no other immediate help around them, I have no idea exactly how I’d react or how tight my chokehold might be or how precise the calibration against resistance might be in such an extremely heightened and volatile situation.

So for anyone trying to either dramatically lionize or vilify either one of them with such certainty and self-righteousness, I just can’t see that. It’s all just way too gray. Because I’ve been in very similar situations that could’ve escalated just like this one did, so there but for the grace of god, go I. As they say.
 
duluoz said:
I haven’t seen those numbers but if they’re accurate, then they were about the same height, though Penny has a bigger build.

But either way, that’s plenty big enough to be imposing while on an aggressive tirade fueled by schizophrenia and synthetic marijuana. Which as I understand, the substance intensifies schizophrenia and violent behavior.

I’m humble enough to know that until someone like that is lunging at a woman and her 5 year old (among others) in an enclosed space right in front of me with potentially no other immediate help around them, I have no idea exactly how I’d react or how tight my chokehold might be or how precise the calibration against resistance might be in such an extremely heightened and volatile situation.

So for anyone trying to either dramatically lionize or vilify either one of them with such certainty and self-righteousness, I just can’t see that. It’s all just way too gray. Because I’ve been in very similar situations that could’ve escalated just like this one did, so there but for the grace of god, go I. As they say.
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Agree with all this but also tend to think there’s enough for a civil jury to find liability, which iirc doesn’t require a unanimous jury, + these facts.
 
ColdBlueSteel said:
Because he’s lying?
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Aspects of his PR/ jury pool tainting/ fundraising video were in opposition to the testimony of witnesses who were under oath. I won’t say he was lying because he might actually believe that nonsense, but the weight of testimony against his story was substantial.
 
Haven't read the entire thread, but I think it's hilarious that so many posters here believe people with a legitimately triggered fight or flight response are supposed to be completely rational. If you fear for your life are you really supposed to think it all through and figure out the 100% best way to restrain your attacker without hurting them??? And anyone who goes around threatening to kill people and acting like they might actually do it deserves what they get, regardless of how crazy they are. I know for certain if someone threatens me or my family in a situation like that, I will be 100% certain they will not succeed. No I am not letting go of a chokehold to see if the guy pulls a gun on me. This whole thing is just stupid and shame on Bragg for yielding to the pressure and pressing charges. Focus on real criminals like Trump and not veterans with no criminal record protecting people.
 
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*never mind, deleting. I need to be less invested on this. BVD think what you want, I’m not going to try to convince here.
 
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