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“Eat the Rich” memes spread, but is it a political movement?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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Paine said:
True. Left-wing populists made some progress on that front in the post-New Deal years, but the Southern Strategy largely blew it up. Still dealing with the consequences/implications today.

That’s the question for the modern left. The modern American left, at least. We both know that there is a narrow path for a left party in this kind of environment.

End of the day, no path for the left in America is viable without a majority of working people. Think there’s different theories of how you get them back, and that’s what we’re seeing play out in the party now.
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the two most significant things to know about the populist movement in the 1890s are:

a. they were mostly right about monetary policy. they didn't talk about it in those terms, of course, but they wanted an increase in the money supply to combat bank panics. thats basically what the fed does now.

b. the political leader of the movement went on to defend tennesee's ban on teaching evolution.

those two facts tell us a lot about american politics.
 
lawtig02 said:
Violence begets violence, and it almost never begets anything other than more violence.
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I heard a left-leaning commentator say this several years ago, can't remember his name but I think it's the same guy who Paine posted a longish video of a few weeks ago giving a speech. It caught my attention to such a degree that I typed it out verbatim at the time and saved it. It addresses lawtig's sentence that I quoted and, I think, the larger issue of the thread title:

Street clashes do not distress the ruling elites. These clashes divide the underclass. They divert activists from threatening the actual structures of power. They give the corporate state the ammunition to impose harsher mechanisms of control and expand the powers of internal security.

When ANTIFA assumes the right to curtail free speech it becomes a weapon in the hands of its enemies to take that freedom away from everyone, esp. the anti-capitalists. The focus on street violence diverts activists from the far less glamorous task of building relationships and alternative institutions and community organizing that alone will make effective resistance possible.

We will defeat the corporate state only when we take back and empower our communities. As long as acts of resistance are forms of personal catharsis, the corporate state is secure. Indeed, the corporate state welcomes this violence, because violence is a language it can speak, with a proficiency and ruthlessness that none of these groups can match.
 
farce© said:
So what is it about race in this country that makes it problematic?
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Multi culturalism is more difficult to manage / satisfy people's concerns and needs. It erodes national unity. Happiest countries - Finland, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden - All comparatively lacking in diversity. A single culture is easier to manage from a g'ment perspective. We might be the most difficult. We are like a 10 member church committee trying to pick the next most important project or a paint color.
 
Callatoroy said:
Then it needs to quit focusing on culture wars and dei and get in the game because right now the American people only see one viable party and it isn't the left. I question if you can leave that behind. You guys just don't seem to get it. Voters are tired of they / them and just want to deal with everyday issues that affect their spending power and providing for their family. Woke is out. I think that makes the left mad though and the mindset is we won't let it be out.
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Ive just decided that you are a really bad person. You know damned well no significant portion of people on the left care about "they/them" or any such nonsense. The fact that you and people like you seem to want to use people as props for insult is a problem but largely I've given up on you having a soul worth redeeming.

Count me as someone who thinks pronoun nonsense is nonsense from EVERYONE and who hears it about 1000x more from MAGA than anywhere else.

And if people were truly sick of culture issues, they sure as hell wouldn't be flocking toward MAGA. It's just that you want to pick and choose which culture issues you get to look down upon. That's your cultural issue.
 
farce© said:
Trump demanding the debt ceiling be increased/eliminated before he takes office should be a big ol’ clue.
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It certainly is something to question. Its also a weapon he can take away from the left if they want to play games and hold him hostage with.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Ive just decided that you are a really bad person. You know damned well no significant portion of people on the left care about "they/them" or any such nonsense. The fact that you and people like you seem to want to use people as props for insult is a problem but largely I've given up on you having a soul worth redeeming.

Count me as someone who thinks pronoun nonsense is nonsense from EVERYONE and who hears it about 1000x more from MAGA than anywhere else.

And if people were truly sick of culture issues, they sure as hell wouldn't be flocking toward MAGA. It's just that you want to pick and choose which culture issues you get to look down upon. That's your cultural issue.
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Not my intent. I used it as an example of wokeness. Sorry you took it that way.
 
Callatoroy said:
Yes there is, you would just rather get offended at something that wasn't ever intended to offend but to convey a sentiment.
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I wouldn't rather get offended. I would rather not try to make some grand issue out of something that is a total non-issue. I would rather not punch down on people who arent here to defend themselves. I'd rather not be a douche without provocation.
 
Callatoroy said:
Multi culturalism is more difficult to manage / satisfy people's concerns and needs. It erodes national unity. Happiest countries - Finland, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden - All comparatively lacking in diversity. A single culture is easier to manage from a g'ment perspective. We might be the most difficult. We are like a 10 member church committee trying to pick the next most important project or a paint color.
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True that multiculturalism presents social complexities. But, we have to keep trying... there's no choice.
 
Callatoroy said:
Multi culturalism is more difficult to manage / satisfy people's concerns and needs. It erodes national unity. Happiest countries - Finland, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden - All comparatively lacking in diversity. A single culture is easier to manage from a g'ment perspective. We might be the most difficult. We are like a 10 member church committee trying to pick the next most important project or a paint color.
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Which cultures are causing the problems?
 
finesse said:
Not sure that I consider tobacco and alcohol taxes regressive. The heavier the user, the more demands they are going to make on the system in terms of health care, accidents, etc. Why shouldn't they be paying extra?
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Plus, one has a choice to pay those taxes.
 
Callatoroy said:
Then it needs to quit focusing on culture wars and dei and get in the game because right now the American people only see one viable party and it isn't the left. I question if you can leave that behind. You guys just don't seem to get it. Voters are tired of they / them and just want to deal with everyday issues that affect their spending power and providing for their family. Woke is out. I think that makes the left mad though and the mindset is we won't let it be out.
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Listening to you one would think that trump surely achieved over 50% of the voters voting for him and had to have recieved 10-12 million more votes than his competition.

Yet he didn't. The numbers just don't seem to support that there is only one party or anything else you've proposed.

The guy barely won the popular vote and didn't hit 50% of the actual votes.
 
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Callatoroy said:
Farmers have been getting bailed out for decades. That's hardly new or limited to one party. I did vote for the candidate whose economic policies will result in less g'ment spending. DOGE for the win.
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At least you hope that.

Can you tell us how you know which policy trump is actually going to try and implement vs the ones you are convinced he's only lying about?
 
Paine said:
It wasn’t too long ago that a large percentage of chip manufacturing took place in the United States. That number has declined from about 37% of chips sold globally in 1990 to 12% in 2019. The original offshoring of these jobs took place under neoliberalism, which I think you’re a proponent of if I remember your past posts correctly.

Your second bullet point is the most important. Direct economic incentive is what drives this industry. Obviously, legislation must be passed in order for these changes to take place. This is a modern country with a fairly modern economy.

The most famous examples of left wing populists in the U.S. are AOC and Bernie Sanders. Do you think people of this ilk would not support legislation that reshores certain domestic industries? That’s kind of their whole brand, so that would be weird if they didn’t.

I’m not a policy expert, but I know that there are a plethora of ways to spur domestic chip manufacturing that don’t involve no-strings-attached giveaways to companies that were already massively profitable and still spending large portions of their money on stock buybacks and executive salary packages.

A populist movement would force these industries to invest in America and Americans. If you think it’s Lenin on one side and Hitler on the other with no daylight in between when it comes to populism, I really don’t know what to tell you.
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I’m curious.

What level of protectionist policy should the US enact?

With enough protectionism, we’d still have textile and shoe manufacturing in the US.
 
wmheel1287 said:
It's not unpopular with me. I'm just as scared of ultra left devotees as I am those who are ultra right...and im utterly terrified of the ultra right.
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Speaking of ultra left, what's up with Antifa, the great bogeyman of the right? I never quite figured out what Antifa is, or how well 'subscribed' it is. Does it still exist?
 
Paine said:
Nah, I can’t imagine that. Che was a singular figure. That’s why I think the path for the American left is firmly rooted in the history of American left-wing populism from Tom Paine to Jefferson to FDR to Sanders.
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That slave-owning, rapist, sexual abuser, yeoman farmer promoting Thomas Jefferson is a left-wing populist?
 
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