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“Eat the Rich” memes spread, but is it a political movement?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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Callatoroy said:
What is left wing populism?
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And if you’re interested in a book about it instead of Wiki:

tcfrank.com

The People, No

(2020) For my final political book, I decided to come to a reckoning with populism, the idea that has defined my career. Also with anti-populism, by which I mean the people who hate that idea. I start by showing why everything we think we know about populism is wrong. It is not, as certain...
tcfrank.com
 
Paine said:
en.wikipedia.org

Left-wing populism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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seriously. populism has been leftie for eons. its the rightwingers who are new to the game.

a problem with populism -- a problem that right-wingers exploit -- is that the "average" american is deeply prejudiced. this was certainly true in the heyday of populism which is one reason it fell out of favor. giving power to farmers in kansas might yield more equitable economic outcomes for the white straight folk but it gets tricky when you start accounting for gay people and minorities. and in america, the working classes have shown greater interest in culture wars than economic justice.
 
superrific said:
seriously. populism has been leftie for eons. its the rightwingers who are new to the game.

a problem with populism -- a problem that right-wingers exploit -- is that the "average" american is deeply prejudiced. this was certainly true in the heyday of populism which is one reason it fell out of favor. giving power to farmers in kansas might yield more equitable economic outcomes for the white straight folk but it gets tricky when you start accounting for gay people and minorities. and in america, the working classes have shown greater interest in culture wars than economic justice.
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True. Left-wing populists made some progress on that front in the post-New Deal years, but the Southern Strategy largely blew it up. Still dealing with the consequences/implications today.

That’s the question for the modern left. The modern American left, at least. We both know that there is a narrow path for a left party in this kind of environment.

End of the day, no path for the left in America is viable without a majority of working people. Think there’s different theories of how you get them back, and that’s what we’re seeing play out in the party now.
 
Paine said:
And if you’re interested in a book about it instead of Wiki:

tcfrank.com

The People, No

(2020) For my final political book, I decided to come to a reckoning with populism, the idea that has defined my career. Also with anti-populism, by which I mean the people who hate that idea. I start by showing why everything we think we know about populism is wrong. It is not, as certain...
tcfrank.com
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So a more radical leftist agenda. Socialism? Yea, you guys need more of the Jeff Jackson types stepping up but I'm not seeing it. Did see this and thought it played differently from my previous thoughts of him

 
Callatoroy said:
I didn't say it was racist. I don't think it is racist within the context that I think most on the left do. I said race was a variable in the differences between our country and others.
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So what is it about race in this country that makes it problematic?
 
Paine said:
True. Left-wing populists made some progress on that front in the post-New Deal years, but the Southern Strategy largely blew it up. Still dealing with the consequences/implications today.

That’s the question for the modern left. The modern American left, at least. We both know that there is a narrow path for a left party in this kind of environment.

End of the day, no path for the left in America is viable without a majority of working people. Think there’s different theories of how you get them back, and that’s what we’re seeing play out in the party now.
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the two most significant things to know about the populist movement in the 1890s are:

a. they were mostly right about monetary policy. they didn't talk about it in those terms, of course, but they wanted an increase in the money supply to combat bank panics. thats basically what the fed does now.

b. the political leader of the movement went on to defend tennesee's ban on teaching evolution.

those two facts tell us a lot about american politics.
 
lawtig02 said:
Violence begets violence, and it almost never begets anything other than more violence.
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I heard a left-leaning commentator say this several years ago, can't remember his name but I think it's the same guy who Paine posted a longish video of a few weeks ago giving a speech. It caught my attention to such a degree that I typed it out verbatim at the time and saved it. It addresses lawtig's sentence that I quoted and, I think, the larger issue of the thread title:

Street clashes do not distress the ruling elites. These clashes divide the underclass. They divert activists from threatening the actual structures of power. They give the corporate state the ammunition to impose harsher mechanisms of control and expand the powers of internal security.

When ANTIFA assumes the right to curtail free speech it becomes a weapon in the hands of its enemies to take that freedom away from everyone, esp. the anti-capitalists. The focus on street violence diverts activists from the far less glamorous task of building relationships and alternative institutions and community organizing that alone will make effective resistance possible.

We will defeat the corporate state only when we take back and empower our communities. As long as acts of resistance are forms of personal catharsis, the corporate state is secure. Indeed, the corporate state welcomes this violence, because violence is a language it can speak, with a proficiency and ruthlessness that none of these groups can match.
 
farce© said:
So what is it about race in this country that makes it problematic?
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Multi culturalism is more difficult to manage / satisfy people's concerns and needs. It erodes national unity. Happiest countries - Finland, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden - All comparatively lacking in diversity. A single culture is easier to manage from a g'ment perspective. We might be the most difficult. We are like a 10 member church committee trying to pick the next most important project or a paint color.
 
Callatoroy said:
Then it needs to quit focusing on culture wars and dei and get in the game because right now the American people only see one viable party and it isn't the left. I question if you can leave that behind. You guys just don't seem to get it. Voters are tired of they / them and just want to deal with everyday issues that affect their spending power and providing for their family. Woke is out. I think that makes the left mad though and the mindset is we won't let it be out.
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Ive just decided that you are a really bad person. You know damned well no significant portion of people on the left care about "they/them" or any such nonsense. The fact that you and people like you seem to want to use people as props for insult is a problem but largely I've given up on you having a soul worth redeeming.

Count me as someone who thinks pronoun nonsense is nonsense from EVERYONE and who hears it about 1000x more from MAGA than anywhere else.

And if people were truly sick of culture issues, they sure as hell wouldn't be flocking toward MAGA. It's just that you want to pick and choose which culture issues you get to look down upon. That's your cultural issue.
 
farce© said:
Trump demanding the debt ceiling be increased/eliminated before he takes office should be a big ol’ clue.
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It certainly is something to question. Its also a weapon he can take away from the left if they want to play games and hold him hostage with.
 
wmheel1287 said:
Ive just decided that you are a really bad person. You know damned well no significant portion of people on the left care about "they/them" or any such nonsense. The fact that you and people like you seem to want to use people as props for insult is a problem but largely I've given up on you having a soul worth redeeming.

Count me as someone who thinks pronoun nonsense is nonsense from EVERYONE and who hears it about 1000x more from MAGA than anywhere else.

And if people were truly sick of culture issues, they sure as hell wouldn't be flocking toward MAGA. It's just that you want to pick and choose which culture issues you get to look down upon. That's your cultural issue.
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Not my intent. I used it as an example of wokeness. Sorry you took it that way.
 
Callatoroy said:
Yes there is, you would just rather get offended at something that wasn't ever intended to offend but to convey a sentiment.
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I wouldn't rather get offended. I would rather not try to make some grand issue out of something that is a total non-issue. I would rather not punch down on people who arent here to defend themselves. I'd rather not be a douche without provocation.
 
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