“Eat the Rich” memes spread, but is it a political movement?

[UNCatTech]

I hope that Callatoroy and everyone has the greatest Christmas ever. I hope that they are right that trump simply lied about everything and doesn't destroy the country.

Yes, they are completely correct, trump won. (Finally, beat someone in actual votes on his third try)

But, 2,288,383 or 1.5% of the voters, is not a mandate or an ass kicking in any way. It's not even a top 10 in margin.

I mean, Nixon won by 23%, Reagan by 18%, Clinton by 8%, Bush 1 by 7%, Obama by 7%, Carter by 2%, Trump (2024) 1.5%, trump (2016) -2%.

 

[hedge]

Your party and media has been exposed for what it is.

Well at least you're consistent. You were saying the same thing about Trump, Maga and FoxNews in 2020. Oh, wait...

 

[UNCatTech]

I mean the same way republicans and democrats have used the debt ceiling as a weapon when they don't get their way. Why is it so hard for you guys to call out crap when your side does it? Are you so fragile that you can't be objective?

Great.

Ok, so I try to find common ground. I agree that the debt ceiling is crap and should be done away with so that it isn't used in this way.

So, let's just get rid of it.

Same with the Electoral College. It really doesn't make sense that a person can lose the vote and win the election.

Are there other things we can agree upon? There probably are if we can get past the "Winning" and party bullshit.

 

[farce©]

I mean the same way republicans and democrats have used the debt ceiling as a weapon when they don't get their way. Why is it so hard for you guys to call out crap when your side does it? Are you so fragile that you can't be objective?

Sure. Can you show me an instance of the Democrats refusing to increase the debt ceiling (or simply threatening to do so) during a Republican administration? (FYI: I am not a Democrat, I have voted for my fair share of Republicans but not since Trump took over the party.).

 

[Callatoroy]

You're lies don't agree with the numbers.

Keep telling yourself that the orange turn actually did something historical, if it make you feel better. The numbers don't support it.

A 1.5% win isn't that staggering.

Trump falls just below 50% in popular vote, but gets more than in past elections

This year's popular-vote margin is the second-closest since 1968 and still tightening. It shows just how closely divided the country is politically, and that any shift to the right is marginal.

whyy.org

Look, there's trump, just below Carter:

Just how big was Donald Trump’s election victory?

The US president-elect has emphasised the scale of his win – but data shows that most voters picked someone else.

www.bbc.com

So, keep telling yourself what makes you feel better.

IF not for a broken system that allows a looser like trump to claim an EC victory, we would have been done with him when Hillary beat him. By a larger margin, if I recall correctly.

Ahh, the broken system that has worked for 250 years. We didn't win - lets change the system. We didn't get our way - lets change the system. SC not the way we want it - lets change the system. Can't pass legislation - let's change the system. There is a clear pattern here.

Do you not see the irony in your comment of "so, keep telling yourself what makes you feel better." I'm not the one here acting like an lol fan arguing semantics and what ifs. That is your argument. Apparently that's all you have left to make yourself feel better. I'm good with the numbers. Winning the way the genius founding fathers designed they system is FAR more important (and the only way) than winning under some hypothetical system designed by the losers. You ran a demented candidate until you decided you couldn't. Then hand picked a candidate that had never won a single elector in the most anti-democratic process imaginable. Got your ass kicked in losing all 3 branches of g'ment, and now you want to beat your chest over some numbers that are ENTIRELY irrelevant and only relates to a fictitious system. That screams State fan. (note, i'm not calling you a state fan on Christmas Eve but is very much like their logic)

 

[Geisterfahrer]

Ahh, the broken system that has worked for 250 years. We didn't win - lets change the system. We didn't get our way - lets change the system. SC not the way we want it - lets change the system. Can't pass legislation - let's change the system. There is a clear pattern here.

Do you not see the irony in your comment of "so, keep telling yourself what makes you feel better." I'm not the one here acting like an lol fan arguing semantics and what ifs. That is your argument. Apparently that's all you have left to make yourself feel better. I'm good with the numbers. Winning the way the genius founding fathers designed they system is FAR more important (and the only way) than winning under some hypothetical system designed by the losers. You ran a demented candidate until you decided you couldn't. Then hand picked a candidate that had never won a single elector in the most anti-democratic process imaginable. Got your ass kicked in losing all 3 branches of g'ment, and now you want to beat your chest over some numbers that are ENTIRELY irrelevant and only relates to a fictitious system. That screams State fan. (note, i'm not calling you a state fan on Christmas Eve but is very much like their logic)

Sort of like, we didn’t win, let’s storm Congress and overturn the election results with violence?

 

[TarSpiel]

It's beyond time we begin talking about so many of our issues in terms of class, rather than religion, race or other kinds of identity politics.

 

[Callatoroy]

All I have seen from you continually for me than a month is preening from your own moral high ground.

I have no moral high ground in politics. I voted for trump. I'm under no illusions and have great concern as to how he could abuse the system. The difference between me and most on here (not including you as I have given you props for calling crap out) is that I am willing to admit and own my party's f ups. Look at all those that defended the decision to pardon hunter. The most basic thing to call out and they folded like hypocrites do.

 

[ChileG]

The difference between me and most on here (not including you as I have given you props for calling crap out) is that I am willing to admit and own my party's f ups.

We believe you.

 

[Callatoroy]

Great.

Ok, so I try to find common ground. I agree that the debt ceiling is crap and should be done away with so that it isn't used in this way.

So, let's just get rid of it.

Same with the Electoral College. It really doesn't make sense that a person can lose the vote and win the election.

Are there other things we can agree upon? There probably are if we can get past the "Winning" and party bullshit.

There is lots we probably agree on. Probably not going to agree on eliminating the EC, expanding the SC, ending the filibuster, making PR and DC states if you support those. As you read posts, just look at all the comments painting the pub party as whatever the insult is at the time. You will see that gross generalizations are the primary form of talking about pubs. You do that a lot. You want to get past the party bullshit, start on calling that out. As for my "winning" comments. That's just me poking fun or being sarcastic.

 

[Callatoroy]

Largely agree. I think there is some room for religious Democrats to do faith-based messaging a la Raphael Warnock as super as suggested. This can exist under the same umbrella as an overall economic/class focused message, IMO.

Your earlier comments were interesting to me. You feel that the dem party needs to shift more to the Bernie / AOC mindset? Or am I mischaracterizing that?

 

[Callatoroy]

I hope that Callatoroy and everyone has the greatest Christmas ever. I hope that they are right that trump simply lied about everything and doesn't destroy the country.

Yes, they are completely correct, trump won. (Finally, beat someone in actual votes on his third try)

But, 2,288,383 or 1.5% of the voters, is not a mandate or an ass kicking in any way. It's not even a top 10 in margin.

I mean, Nixon won by 23%, Reagan by 18%, Clinton by 8%, Bush 1 by 7%, Obama by 7%, Carter by 2%, Trump (2024) 1.5%, trump (2016) -2%.

We all have different things we take comfort in. Glad you found yours and will sleep well wrapped in that knowledge. Hope Santa is good to you and brings you and your family all the things you wished for.

 

[Centerpiece]

 

[Calheel]

It's beyond time we begin talking about so many of our issues in terms of class, rather than religion, race or other kinds of identity politics.

You can talk class all you want, but the studies and voting patterns have shown time and time again that religion and race (not to mention rural/urban, democrat/republican, etc.) are much stronger identities than class in America. Poor people, generally speaking, do not feel any kinship with other poor people in this country. The poor rural whites (and the cosplaying rural whites from the suburbs) feel much, much more kinship with Trump than the poor racial minorities in the cities.

 

[Callatoroy]

Yes, in terms of an economic populist message.

AOC recently gave an interview where she talked about the Democratic Party needing to shift from an identity focused message to a class/economic focused message. She said she is willing to work with anyone to advance legislation that will help working people.

Bernie, for his part, has always focused on that. The 2020 primary forced a lot of Democrats to the far left side on identity issues, even Bernie. The reasons for this are too many to talk about here, but we know that dynamic happened.

In her race for Oversight chair, AOC ended up getting a lot more votes than anyone would expect from a relatively young congressperson. Her support for Oversight was, interestingly, across the ideological spectrum in the Democratic Party.

Take someone like Pat Ryan, for example. He’s a congressman from a purple district in NY. He outperformed Harris by more than any other purple district Democrat, IIRC. He campaigned on economic populism while also being “tough” on the border. He supported AOC for oversight chair and went to bat for her.

Pat Ryan, AOC, Raphael Warnock. That’s the future of the Democratic coalition. The agreement amongst these factions will be a focus on economic populism. They will still advocate for other issues based on the existing constituencies, of course.

You mention liking Jeff Jackson. He fits firmly under this umbrella. Ryan is very similar to him.

Issues | Congressman Pat Ryan

patryan.house.gov

Ok, give me examples of economic populism as it would come from bernie and aoc.

 

[Callatoroy]

You can talk class all you want, but the studies and voting patterns have shown time and time again that religion and race (not to mention rural/urban, democrat/republican, etc.) are much stronger identities than class in America. Poor people, generally speaking, do not feel any kinship with other poor people in this country. The poor rural whites (and the cosplaying rural whites from the suburbs) feel much, much more kinship with Trump than the poor racial minorities in the cities.

race leads right back to identity politics. That is a weakness in the left because that is inherent in their mindset. It permeates everything they focus on. At least it seems that way to me, especially from the aoc and bernies of the left.

 

[finesse]

race leads right back to identity politics. That is a weakness in the left because that is inherent in their mindset. It permeates everything they focus on. At least it seems that way to me, especially from the aoc and bernies of the left.

The Christian Right is the most powerful and largest identity group in the nation.

 

[Callatoroy]

Literally listen to any speech by them.

I get generalities out of political speeches. Can you provide 2 simple examples (not trying to get you hung up in a pissing match). The concept of economic populism from democratic socialists seems completely contradictory to me. So I may not be understanding your comments as you intend.

 

[TarSpiel]

You can talk class all you want, but the studies and voting patterns have shown time and time again that religion and race (not to mention rural/urban, democrat/republican, etc.) are much stronger identities than class in America. Poor people, generally speaking, do not feel any kinship with other poor people in this country. The poor rural whites (and the cosplaying rural whites from the suburbs) feel much, much more kinship with Trump than the poor racial minorities in the cities.

That's because the wealthy and powerful realize how dangerous it would get for them if people did *not* focus on race, religion, etc, and focused on class instead.

 

[Callatoroy]

I edited my post to include some comments from both of them that encapsulate what I’m talking about. The economic policies of Sanders and AOC are overwhelmingly popular with the American public.

Two specific examples:

Higher taxes on the wealthy
Expanded Medicaid and Medicare

I posted this resource for you earlier but think it got lost: Left-wing populism - Wikipedia

Thank you for the link.

"You cannot love this country if you only fight for the wealthy and big business. To love this country is to fight for its people, all people, working people, every day Americans like bartenders and factory workers, and fast food cashiers who punch a clock and are on their feet all day in some of the toughest jobs out there.”

This is what I'm talking about. What does that even mean? That type of comment is made by almost every politician on both sides in every election. Its just hollow words at this point. Like "we've got to improve education". It means nothing without definition and details. You mentioned increasing taxes on the rich and expanding medicare/medicaid. One immediately brings to mind class warfare and one socialized medicine. To me dems take that as a badge of honor. Personally I think they would be more effective in talking about those types of issues in smaller bites that when taken as a whole equates to higher taxes on the rich without having to appear as though they are waging class warfare. I don't think they can tear themselves away from that though because their identities are tied up in being social justice warriors.