“Eat the Rich” memes spread, but is it a political movement?

[superrific]

I'll agree geographic clustering is part of it, but that's not why chip manufacturing is largely in Asia. If it were just clustering, the cluster could be anywhere. There are reasons it's in Asia, and in my view, that's largely because of the location of natural resources, economic incentives, and the ability to access markets like the US with relative freedom.

the most important factor is the availability of engineers and technically skilled workers. that rules out most of the world except the west, india and the far east. and when semiconductor manufacturing got started, india was not remotely in the game for a number of reasons.

economic incentives play the next most important part, imo.

the other stuff is more fungible. you can find the resources in a lot of places, and the us market is more accessible from other places as well.

 

[wmheel1287]

Fair enough. I'll delete the Trump meme. I am still very concerned, though, that the same dynamics that led to the rise of MAGA could lead to an equally politically anarchistic and socially destructive countermovement on the left.

Not could. Will. The die is cast in that regard. The pendulum has swung far to one pole and it must arrest that momentum by swinging just as forcefully in the other direction. The question is how much further it swings toward the anarchist right before course correcting.

 

[superrific]

Fair enough. I'll delete the Trump meme. I am still very concerned, though, that the same dynamics that led to the rise of MAGA could lead to an equally politically anarchistic and socially destructive countermovement on the left.

sure it can. thats why its a good idea to be friends with folks like paine. treat our allies like allies. and yes, i get frustrated by the neoliberalism stuff, and the dismissiveness toward liberals. they have work to do also. but let's save the trump memes for trump (and i am using that as broader metaphor).

 

[Paine]

sure it can. thats why its a good idea to be friends with folks like paine. treat our allies like allies. and yes, i get frustrated by the neoliberalism stuff, and the dismissiveness toward liberals. they have work to do also. but let's save the trump memes for trump (and i am using that as broader metaphor).

If y’all are really that worried about an authoritarian left-wing rising in the U.S., then that’s why you should keep me close.

 

[superrific]

If y’all are really that worried about an authoritarian left-wing rising in the U.S., then that’s why you should keep me close.

i am not worried about that. i watched occupy wall street. i lived in park slope. leftists can't even properly run a food coop. they aint taking over the government.

and can you imagine a che guevara emerging from 2024 america? nobody has that type of passion for anything, really, except maybe billionaires striving to collect more toys than other billionaires.

 

[Paine]

i am not worried about that. i watched occupy wall street. i lived in park slope. leftists can't even properly run a food coop. they aint taking over the government.

and can you imagine a che guevara emerging from 2024 america? nobody has that type of passion for anything, really, except maybe billionaires striving to collect more toys than other billionaires.

Nah, I can’t imagine that. Che was a singular figure. That’s why I think the path for the American left is firmly rooted in the history of American left-wing populism from Tom Paine to Jefferson to FDR to Sanders.

 

[lawtig02]

i am not worried about that. i watched occupy wall street. i lived in park slope. leftists can't even properly run a food coop. they aint taking over the government.

and can you imagine a che guevara emerging from 2024 america? nobody has that type of passion for anything, really, except maybe billionaires striving to collect more toys than other billionaires.

My concern is not that the left wing populists will take over the government. It's that they'll ruin the Democratic Party's remaining ability to be a stabilizing force in an extremely unstable political environment. We're already down to one functional party. If we lose that one, there's literally nothing to maintain the systems on which the nation -- and the world for that matter -- rely.

 

[lawtig02]

Nah, I can’t imagine that. Che was a singular figure. That’s why I think the path for the American left is firmly rooted in the history of American left-wing populism from Tom Paine to Jefferson to FDR to Sanders.

What do you think Paine, TJ and FDR would have thought about the CHIPS Act?

 

[StrangePackage]

Nah, I can’t imagine that. Che was a singular figure. That’s why I think the path for the American left is firmly rooted in the history of American left-wing populism from Tom Paine to Jefferson to FDR to Sanders.

I'm sorry... Thomas Jefferson was a left wing populist?

 

[Paine]

What do you think Paine, TJ and FDR would have thought about the CHIPS Act?

I don’t know. They’d probably first ask: “what the hell is a chip?”

 

[lawtig02]

I don’t know. They’d probably first ask: “what the hell is a chip?”

Use your imagination. You're the one who invoked them.

 

[Paine]

I'm sorry... Thomas Jefferson was a left wing populist?

Compared to the other founding fathers, yes. We can acknowledge his many flaws along with his contributions to democratic thought. There’s a reason he was so well-respected amongst French revolutionaries.

 

[StrangePackage]

Compared to the other founding fathers, yes. We can acknowledge his many flaws along with his contributions to democratic thought. There’s a reason he was so well-respected amongst French revolutionaries.

I guess if we separate what Jefferson wrote in theory vs what he wrote into practice and what he lived. Maybe. On a good day.

 

[Paine]

I guess if we separate what Jefferson wrote in theory vs what he wrote into practice and what he lived. Maybe. On a good day.

Without a doubt. I won’t make any excuses for the way he lived or his failure to live up to the ideals he wrote about.

 

[hedge]

The phrase “Eat the Rich” is often attributed to Jean-Jacques Rousseau, a political philosopher and leader of the French Revolution.

This is a quibble, but Rousseau was not a leader of the French Revolution nor even alive when it happened, but it is certainly true that many of the leaders of the FR were influenced by Rousseau's writings. As for the FR itself, that didn't turn out so well, the road to Hell being paved with good intentions and all that...

 

[Paine]

Use your imagination. You're the one who invoked them.

Why don’t you tell me what you think they would say about CHIPS? You clearly want to talk about it.

I don’t really care about it one way or the other. It was an act of industrial policy of the kind that has long been more pushed by those on the left than those on the right.

I think it’s good policy to provide incentives for these companies to produce more in the U.S. I don’t think these monies should be attached without strings like union rights. It also is smaller in scope than what is necessary in terms of workforce development for these new factories.

But I’m not an “expert.”

 

[superrific]

What do you think Paine, TJ and FDR would have thought about the CHIPS Act?

this seems to be a question best put to clarence thomas. it's what he puzzles during oral argument.

 

[lawtig02]

Why don’t you tell me what you think they would say about CHIPS? You clearly want to talk about it.

I don’t really care about it one way or the other. It was an act of industrial policy of the kind that has long been more pushed by those on the left than those on the right.

I think it’s good policy to provide incentives for these companies to produce more in the U.S. I don’t think these monies should be attached without strings like union rights. It also is smaller in scope than what is necessary in terms of workforce development for these new factories.

But I’m not an “expert.”

That's probably right. And that's what it did.

FACT SHEET: Two Years after the CHIPS and Science Act, Biden-Harris Administration Celebrates Historic Achievements in Bringing Semiconductor Supply Chains Home, Creating Jobs, Supporting Innovation, and Protecting National Security | The White House

Companies have announced $395+ billion in investments in semiconductors and electronics and the creation of over 115,000 jobs since President Biden and

www.whitehouse.gov

"CHIPS-funded projects are creating more than 115,000 construction and manufacturing jobs with over $250 million of CHIPS funding earmarked for local community workforce development, the use of which will be guided by local stakeholder input, including from academic institutions, training providers, and labor unions, and federal partners, including the Departments of Labor and Education. These projects will also pay construction workers prevailing wages, which ensures they earn family-sustaining wages and benefits, and include some of the largest Project Labor Agreements in history, establishing that the future of this industry in America will be built by union workers."

So why did Bernie join with the right wingers to oppose it?

 

[superrific]

Nah, I can’t imagine that. Che was a singular figure. That’s why I think the path for the American left is firmly rooted in the history of American left-wing populism from Tom Paine to Jefferson to FDR to Sanders.

i saw a headline a couple of days ago, don't remember where and i didn't read the article but it was about democrats trying to reestablish faith as part of their messaging. so its not just you and me any more lol.

 

[Paine]

That's probably right. And that's what it did.

FACT SHEET: Two Years after the CHIPS and Science Act, Biden-Harris Administration Celebrates Historic Achievements in Bringing Semiconductor Supply Chains Home, Creating Jobs, Supporting Innovation, and Protecting National Security | The White House

Companies have announced $395+ billion in investments in semiconductors and electronics and the creation of over 115,000 jobs since President Biden and

www.whitehouse.gov

"CHIPS-funded projects are creating more than 115,000 construction and manufacturing jobs with over $250 million of CHIPS funding earmarked for local community workforce development, the use of which will be guided by local stakeholder input, including from academic institutions, training providers, and labor unions, and federal partners, including the Departments of Labor and Education. These projects will also pay construction workers prevailing wages, which ensures they earn family-sustaining wages and benefits, and include some of the largest Project Labor Agreements in history, establishing that the future of this industry in America will be built by union workers."

So why did Bernie join with the right wingers to oppose it?

Quoting from a White House fact sheet on it won’t get you very far. We’re three years out from the legislation now and we can see that these rules that were “proposed” for companies getting money from CHIPS haven’t been fully followed.

How Much Will the CHIPS Act Help the Workers Who Make Them?

The Commerce Department’s standards don’t require companies receiving billions in public funds to allow their workers to unionize.

prospect.org

Bernie’s opposition to the bill (though I suspect he would’ve voted for it if it was in failure of not passing) was rooted in the fact that it was a giveaway to private companies at a time when many Americans were hurting post-COVID.

For the same amount of money, we could’ve done a lot more on that end. People see their child tax credit expiring while Intel gets billions of their tax payer dollars. Stuff like is is the very kind of stuff Trump was able to exploit in 2024.

Sanders specifically wanted a return on investment guaranteed to Americans since we are using American tax dollars. The money given via CHIPS shouldn’t go to further enriching CEOs and other executives, it should 100% go to investing in America and Americans.

That’s why Bernie voted against it. But you can easily Google this and see that.