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TarSpiel said:
You know that many rabbis and Christian interpreters have read those stories as folktales and allegories that express a moral lesson - rather than actual literal historical events - right?
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How do those numbers compare to those who claim every word to be from good and unquestionably true?

And yes, I believe that those who spend a lot of time studying the text and the history are far less absolute in their proclamations that the religious text are perfect.
 
UNCatTech said:
How do those numbers compare to those who claim every word to be from good and unquestionably true?

And yes, I believe that those who spend a lot of time studying the text and the history are far less absolute in their proclamations that the religious text are perfect.
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Biblical literalism is a relatively new phenomenon, which started to arise with mass literacy in the 19th century, and in response to scientific findings that seemed to obviate some passages and texts. Before that, nobody really much cared....scripture was considered "inspired," not "inerrant" or "literally and factually true in every sentence"
 
TarSpiel said:
You know that many rabbis and Christian interpreters have read those stories as folktales and allegories that express a moral lesson - rather than actual literal historical events - right?
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Good for them. You do know millions and millions and millions of people hold the belief that many or all of those claims are literal, right? Plenty of christians believe plenty of supernatural claims in the bible. Those beliefs have earned mocking characterizations.

The belief that snakes talked, donkeys talked, the earth is covered by a dome, light was created before stars, the universe is 6,000 years old, people rose from their graves and walked through Jerusalem, adam and eve were the first humans, anyone is born of a virgin, the whole world flooded, a man and his family had two of every species on a boat, on and on and on are not some protected class of claims just because they are found in a religious book.

The fact of the matter is that book is held up as the infallible inspiration of a deity and it is chock full of bad ideas. Owning other humans as property is a bad idea. Stoning women to death who don't bleed the first time they have sex is a bad idea. Punishing innocent people for the wrongdoing of others is a bad idea. And the claim someone can determine on their own which parts of that book should be followed strictly as the law of a god and which parts are just allegory is a bad idea too.
 
TarSpiel said:
Oh, have you listened to most of them?

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on especially the non-western people who believe in a creator. Indigenous religions all over the world, Shinto, Taoism, Hindus, Tengriism, bronze age polytheism, african tribal religion, Mesoamerican tribal religion, etc. You've found all of them to be "sheep" who insist that their understanding of the creator is the *only* true one?
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Interesting.

I don't have enough knowledge of those indigenous religions to answer, but in the US each religion seems to preach that their god is the one true God and that all the others are false. Even when presented with evidence that so many of the stories in their texts are not original to their text.
 
Jesus was apolitical. He unconditionally forgave anyone willing to accept forgiveness and redemption. He did not condone claims of moral superiority and judgement of non-believers by his followers. That is a counter-doctrinal construct. Whether you believe in creation, the resurrection and an afterlife or not, the world would be a better place if his teachings on love and forgiveness were followed.
 
TarSpiel said:
It wasn't offensive to me, and I know you're a good dude.

I just think there are better ways of talking about religion than simply equating it to its worst representatives.
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Ok.

I'll admit that my emotion and feelings tend to influence my responses. When I come across more harshly, it's typically because I'm not putting in a much though because of some life event. It's something I work on but am not good at. It's also why I often delete my post when I later read them.

My post wasn't meant to be so much about religion or belief rather the nature of maga people to tend to be followers. I guess I didn't do a good job in expressing that point and I can understand your response.
 
TarSpiel said:
Biblical literalism is a relatively new phenomenon, which started to arise with mass literacy in the 19th century, and in response to scientific findings that seemed to obviate some passages and texts. Before that, nobody really much cared....scripture was considered "inspired," not "inerrant" or "literally and factually true in every sentence"
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Well, you again proved that you know much more of the history of this topic than i do.

This is not a negative or sarcastic. You do know more of the history of religions that I do. After reading this again it seemed a little sarcastic and that wasn't the intent.
 
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OGtruthhurts said:
a religious freak will never admit they are wrong. i warned my family at gatherings that jim and tammy faye bakker were nothing but fake greedy con artists. I was cast aside and almost stoned to death by them. when the shit hit the fan not one single apology from any of them. i rubbed it in their faces hardcore because thats just how i roll when i sense emotional weaknesses.
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Not just emotional weakness, evidently. The shit hit the fan for Jim and Tammy Faye in the late 80's, I guess that means your family is now too old and physically weak to orchestrate a second stoning. Or at least a very effective one. I mean, they failed in the 80's, you'd have to think they've lost a little bit off their fastballs since then...
 
UNCatTech said:
I'll admit that my emotion and feelings tend to influence my responses. When I come across more harshly, it's typically because I'm not putting in a much though because of some life event.
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Fair enough. I'm guilty of that a lot myself.
 
TarSpiel said:
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great chart. I stand corrected. But how do we account for trumps rise in latino / Hispanic voting in 2024? He made serious in-roads. Maybe it just “seems” they don’t like gays and abortion, when in fact perhaps they’re on board with social issues like that. But we also have to admit, the trumpers and pubs always bashing them probably scares most of them Away from the pubs and to the dems.
 
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My devout devotion to the Law of Parsimony leaves me cold to the idea of God, religion, the soul, prophecies and revelations. I'm aware that they could exist but ,with the parlay between them existing and being meaningful for the eyeblink we exist in the universe. I'm led to treat them as meaningless concepts. That said, I don't care what someone else believes.

The sticking point is that people insist that they not only have meaning but that I have to accept that they do. They are also convinced that they are better people because they believe that despite the fact that there is literally nothing about the origins of their religions that are verifiable or even believable. What ever happened to laissez faire?
 
TarSpiel said:
Belief in a creator has probably been the default religious belief of humanity, from deep in our evolutionary past, and across culture.
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People used to believe a lot of things. Citing the beliefs of illiterate goatherds, et al., from eons ago does not really move me to thereby respect religion in general or its current adherents' beliefs. As far as Christianity goes, Jesus told his followers that they should expect to be mocked for their beliefs, although he did sprinkle some sugar on it by saying they would be blessed thereby:

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
 
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U
finesse said:
My devout devotion to the Law of Parsimony leaves me cold to the idea of God, religion, the soul, prophecies and revelations. I'm aware that they could exist but ,with the parlay between them existing and being meaningful for the eyeblink we exist in the universe. I'm led to treat them as meaningless concepts. That said, I don't care what someone else believes.

The sticking point is that people insist that they not only have meaning but that I have to accept that they do. They are also convinced that they are better people because they believe that despite the fact that there is literally nothing about the origins of their religions that are verifiable or even believable. What ever happened to laissez faire?
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Yes, the old bible in one hand and sword in the other deal - “believe what I believe or I’ll run you through with me cutlass” . Nobody sees the Spanish Inquisition coming.
 
Centerpiece said:
great chart. I stand corrected. But how do we account for trumps rise in latino / Hispanic voting in 2024? He made serious in-roads. Maybe it just “seems” they don’t like gays and abortion, when in fact perhaps they’re on board with social issues like that. But we also have to admit, the trumpers and pubs always bashing them probably scares most of them Away from the pubs and to the dems.
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I think people misunderestimate how racist some latinos are against other latinos.
 
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