FAFO

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My devout devotion to the Law of Parsimony leaves me cold to the idea of God, religion, the soul, prophecies and revelations. I'm aware that they could exist but ,with the parlay between them existing and being meaningful for the eyeblink we exist in the universe. I'm led to treat them as meaningless concepts. That said, I don't care what someone else believes.

The sticking point is that people insist that they not only have meaning but that I have to accept that they do. They are also convinced that they are better people because they believe that despite the fact that there is literally nothing about the origins of their religions that are verifiable or even believable. What ever happened to laissez faire?
You know my vocabulary has improved quite a bit reading on these boards and the old IC boards.

I struggle a little with parsimony also, but I'm working on it. Listening to Ramit Sethi has helped me a lot.

And I completely agree with your statements here, 100%.
 
This is puzzling.
Not so much to me. I think of my general opinion of people from, say, Florida or Alabama, as unfair as it might be, and know that I have a general bias going in. Seems about the same to me although with fewer actual declared wars.

However it's only a little stronger than I feel about people in general.
 
How so? We do ourselves a huge disservice by pretending that Latinos are a monolithic group free of prejudice against other Latinos.
the right treats them like a monolith - they're all brown people or mexicans.

so its surprising to some when they wanna punch down on or turn against people who they're in the same boat with struggling against the tide of right wing american bigotry.
 
Oh, have you listened to most of them?

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on especially the non-western people who believe in a creator. Indigenous religions all over the world, Shinto, Taoism, Hindus, Tengriism, bronze age polytheism, african tribal religion, Mesoamerican tribal religion, etc. You've found all of them to be "sheep" who insist that their understanding of the creator is the *only* true one?
These people you’re pointing out are not shaping public policy nor waging major wars though, are they.

If you want to get semantic and pick on “most” or ”many” then I’m happy to tighten that to say “most whose religions are having major negative impacts on global events.” Which I’m sure you knew I meant. Not many Bronze Age polytheists bombing people or ripping away women’s reproductive rights, last I checked.
 
I think people misunderestimate how racist some latinos are against other latinos.
Agree. And I'm sure you meant "underestimate" or "mis-estimate" and not "misunderestimate" ... but we get your drift.

Yes indeed. The folks descended from Spain directly feel they are superior. Any indigenous peoples who were conquered by Spain, or any African peoples who were enslaved and brought to Spain-dominated territories are definitely looked down upon by the "Euro-Hispanics". The Mulattoes (or Mulata) are definitely frowned upon. Heck, talk to a Euro-Cubano about Mexicans and they'll give you an ear full. And that's just one example. Honestly, I don't know which group is looked down upon the most: Those descended from African slaves or the indigenous folk who were conquered and imperialized. My best guess is they are both treated with disdain equally. Need @donbosco to weigh in.
 
How so? We do ourselves a huge disservice by pretending that Latinos are a monolithic group free of prejudice against other Latinos.
It's that it is toward their own people.

Not that racism is ever good or acceptable, it is just harder to understand within the same race.

But, I may just be being naive.
 
I just think there are better ways of talking about religion than simply equating it to its worst representatives.
The worst representatives are the loudest and are aggressively persecuting non-believers and “nonconformists.” So they dominate the conversation, clearly. That’s not our choice, it was forced on us.

If the better representatives of these religions would rise up against those clowns, then we could have the more pleasant and idyllic exchanges you’re alluding to. Where are their voices? Why aren’t they winning followers over to a more tolerant worldview? Because until then, those conversations you’re referring to don’t amount to much, unfortunately. It’s rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.
 
This is puzzling.
Pretty certain he’s saying that certain groups of Latinos look “down” on other groups of Latinos. It’s similar to Americans of Northern European descent putting up “No Irish” signs or discriminating against Italians, Slavs, Poles, etc.

Without a doubt, many Spanish Latinos look down on Indigenous Latinos AND black Latinos. The “whiter” or more European-looking, the better.

Many (most?) Cuban-Americans pretty much look down on all other Latinos in the US. The Cubans who fled when Castro overthrew the Batista dictatorship were largely Hispanic Cubans. They certainly were not Afro-Cubans and few were of indigenous heritage.

In many cases, the elite governing classes in Latin America were mostly of European heritage. They dominated and/or enslaved the indigenous people (similar to the United States and Canada). Europeans conquering indigenous people were not exactly kind.

It’s likely that Latinos in the USA who have fled Communism regard themselves as higher up the food chain than indigenous people looking for a better life.

Basically, not all Latinos are the same.
 
Biblical literalism is a relatively new phenomenon, which started to arise with mass literacy in the 19th century, and in response to scientific findings that seemed to obviate some passages and texts. Before that, nobody really much cared....scripture was considered "inspired," not "inerrant" or "literally and factually true in every sentence"
Didn't Jesus himself speak in parables that taught moral lessons but were not supposed to be taken as necessarily real or true?
 
great chart. I stand corrected. But how do we account for trumps rise in latino / Hispanic voting in 2024? He made serious in-roads. Maybe it just “seems” they don’t like gays and abortion, when in fact perhaps they’re on board with social issues like that. But we also have to admit, the trumpers and pubs always bashing them probably scares most of them Away from the pubs and to the dems.
The same thing happened with George W. Bush in 2004. Bush substantially increased his Latino vote from the 2000 election. In 1996 only 21% of Latinos voted for Republican Bob Dole instead of Bill Clinton. In 2000 35% of Latinos voted for Dubya, and in 2004 he raised his Latino vote to 44%, or about the same as Trump got last year. But in 2008 the GOP's share of the Latino vote plummeted, falling back to just 31% for McCain, and in 2012 Romney did even worse, getting just 27% of the Latino vote. In 2016 Trump won only 28% of the Latino vote.

So basically this pattern has happened before - a GOP POTUS increases the GOP share of the Latino vote, but then it eventually falls back. I will be interested to see what percentage of the Latino vote the next Republican candidate gets in 2028. I have a hunch that after their deportations and attacks on immigrants that the GOP share of Latino voters will drop again, probably significantly.
 
Agree. And I'm sure you meant "underestimate" or "mis-estimate" and not "misunderestimate" ... but we get your drift.

Yes indeed. The folks descended from Spain directly feel they are superior. Any indigenous peoples who were conquered by Spain, or any African peoples who were enslaved and brought to Spain-dominated territories are definitely looked down upon by the "Euro-Hispanics". The Mulattoes (or Mulata) are definitely frowned upon. Heck, talk to a Euro-Cubano about Mexicans and they'll give you an ear full. And that's just one example. Honestly, I don't know which group is looked down upon the most: Those descended from African slaves or the indigenous folk who were conquered and imperialized. My best guess is they are both treated with disdain equally. Need @donbosco to weigh in.


The Spaniard's colonization, human trafficking and toxic culture shaping isn't talked about enough.

Technically, it's sickening.

That being said, one of the most incredible, decent ppl I've ever known was a Spanish man I met in the 90's. Good dude. Real good dude.

*Take a look at what the Spanish culture shaping did to Sammy Sosa. Frign tragedy...
 
Please run on this in the midterms.

The only thing more unpopular than this board where the same 10-15 posters jerk each other off daily about how smart you are is the Democrats..

21%
Then why are you here, if it's so unpopular?

If you are lost on your journey and cannot know your father at birth then you are cursed to be a trumplican cult member, but worry not for Kalisia will help you to find your true reason for being a bad prostitute.
 
The social/racial hierarchy established by Spanish colonization still has legs today but it is a big region and in my experience the race part is especially varied from country to country and even within nations. All kinds of historical factors come into play in that figuring...were the indigenous people in a particular place wiped out or kept alive to work? What were the initial contact years like? Has the country seen lengthy progressive periods when civil rights were advanced or has it been a hard elitist clamp down from the get-go? And so on and so on...

This chart does a cursory job in helping one to imagine the colonial beginnings and their legacy...but again, it hardly demonstrates the profound complexity of even the early colonial racial classifications that remain extant in many ways today.

4552364.jpg

The fact that during the late colonial period it was possible to actually purchase "certificates of whiteness," [Limpieza de sangre] infused many places with a deeper class-based (i.e., wealth) element to the hierarchy. I think this is one of the more confusing factors looking in from the outside and in particular when viewing the divisions between Latin Americans and their descendants who have moved to the USA.

Like I wrote above...the waters are super complicated.

And then you throw in religion and you've got flat-out mud.
 
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