Good faith privately-funded White House ballroom discussion

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bridgetender said:
It is ridiculous to claim to read the variety of news sources you have claimed on this very thread and post that Isreal is a defensive nation. The world is standing by watching Isreal commit genocide in Gaza for fear of being labeled "antisemitic", as well as watching them destroy Lebanon villages under the ridiculous guise of going after Hamas.

You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
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You seem to be handicapped by not knowing the difference between offensive and defensive. Every bit of this from Israel’s perspective comes from the Hamas attack. Israel stated at the time they were never going to go through that again and was going to do whatever it took to ensure it. Short memories from many on here.
 
Zoo_View said:
This is a BS war.

Started by a poorly informed POTUS.

A war started with no consultation with our NATO or Asian allies.

Maybe with no consultation with our Gulf “allies.” Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, and the other Gulf states are not American allies. But, their opinions on starting a war in their front yard matter.

We did consult with Israel. Israel is NOT an American ally. Israel is NO ONE’S ally. You either back Israel 100% or you can fuck off and die.

A war started with no clear objectives. A war started with no Congressional or popular support.

What should we do?

Well, we broke it. As did Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Dubya in Iraq.

We can’t fix it.

So, I advocate we leave.
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All the blah, blah, blah (like I didn’t already know your pretext). Could have just skipped straight to the “i advocate we leave” part. WM’s take on leaving didn’t surprise me. Your’s does slightly, but maybe not. I’d have to put a little more thought into it.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
We can talk opinions going forward, would you agree on facts?

What really set off the war at this specific time?

Before we started this war, what was the status of the Strait and Iran.

Was it your opinion that we should have attacked Iran before Trump did it.

What is the current US/global opinion of this Korean gov't? (you stated that the world thinks that they are a good actor... that's not what I'm saying about this regime)

Is this a war success or failure based on the stated goals?
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How can you claim it’s either until it’s concluded? So far successful but can turn into failure if when we leave Iran still has HEU and still extorting shipping traffic in the strait.
 
Callatoroy said:
It was always going to be necessary. It was just a matter of when with the mullahs in charge. Israel was never going to abide by the jcpoa and admitted as much.
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Israel wasn’t a signor of the jcpoa and if they did “abide” by it for 13 years until they finally found a stooge in the White House to do their bidding.
 
warmonger Lady G has given a clear and concise definition of "victory "

the reopen of the strait

www.rawstory.com

Lindsey Graham mocked online for his 'bizarre definition of victory' in Iran war

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) set off a round of brutal mockery for providing his definition of victory in the Iran war.The South Carolina Republican and longtime champion for bombing Iran appeared Monday night on Fox News, where host Sean Hannity asked him to what terms would be necessary for the...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com
 
UNCatTech said:
They took the retaliation all the way to genocide.

Hamas being wrong doesn't make all of Isreal's actions justified.
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Hamas (Iran / hezbelah) wasnt just wrong. They were intentionally as brutal as possible to inflict maximum terror. You obviously haven’t educated yourself about the level of brutality used. Israel stated at the time they were not going to stop until they had wiped out Hamas. Hamas was the ones hiding behind their women’s skirts and under their kids beds. How should Israel fight against that? Just like the left always does, it applies some extreme label (in this case genocide) for shock value and then runs it into the ground until it actually believes it’s on bullshit and the label becomes meaningless. When you are committing genocide, you don’t give advance warning or give time for civilians to clear out. There was / is an attempt at genocide. Leave it to you guys though to get it wrong as to who was intent on genocide. Just so you know who that was, it was the ones who have stated publicly their purpose in life is to wipe Israel from existence. It’s like some electrical circuit in the part of the brain that controls logic gets shorted out. You turn criminals into victims and victims into villains.
 
Callatoroy said:
Hamas (Iran / hezbelah) wasnt just wrong. They were intentionally as brutal as possible to inflict maximum terror. You obviously haven’t educated yourself about the level of brutality used. Israel stated at the time they were not going to stop until they had wiped out Hamas. Hamas was the ones hiding behind their women’s skirts and under their kids beds. How should Israel fight against that? Just like the left always does, it applies some extreme label (in this case genocide) for shock value and then runs it into the ground until it actually believes it’s on bullshit and the label becomes meaningless. When you are committing genocide, you don’t give advance warning or give time for civilians to clear out. There was / is an attempt at genocide. Leave it to you guys though to get it wrong as to who was intent on genocide. Just so you know who that was, it was the ones who have stated publicly their purpose in life is to wipe Israel from existence. It’s like some electrical circuit in the part of the brain that controls logic gets shorted out. You turn criminals into victims and victims into villains.
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And what part of Israel won't stop means we should be involved in their fight? Not just involved, but sacrificing FAR more in terms of cost...

If they want to fight to the bitter end, let them. We are not Israel's attack dog.
 
Callatoroy said:
Hamas (Iran / hezbelah) wasnt just wrong. They were intentionally as brutal as possible to inflict maximum terror. You obviously haven’t educated yourself about the level of brutality used. Israel stated at the time they were not going to stop until they had wiped out Hamas. Hamas was the ones hiding behind their women’s skirts and under their kids beds. How should Israel fight against that? Just like the left always does, it applies some extreme label (in this case genocide) for shock value and then runs it into the ground until it actually believes it’s on bullshit and the label becomes meaningless. When you are committing genocide, you don’t give advance warning or give time for civilians to clear out. There was / is an attempt at genocide. Leave it to you guys though to get it wrong as to who was intent on genocide. Just so you know who that was, it was the ones who have stated publicly their purpose in life is to wipe Israel from existence. It’s like some electrical circuit in the part of the brain that controls logic gets shorted out. You turn criminals into victims and victims into villains.
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You are clear eyed on Hamas. I see them the same way you do, and I know many, if not most people here do as well. I don’t understand why you can’t see the Israeli regime with similar clarity.
 
Callatoroy said:
Hamas (Iran / hezbelah) wasnt just wrong. They were intentionally as brutal as possible to inflict maximum terror. You obviously haven’t educated yourself about the level of brutality used. Israel stated at the time they were not going to stop until they had wiped out Hamas. Hamas was the ones hiding behind their women’s skirts and under their kids beds. How should Israel fight against that? Just like the left always does, it applies some extreme label (in this case genocide) for shock value and then runs it into the ground until it actually believes it’s on bullshit and the label becomes meaningless. When you are committing genocide, you don’t give advance warning or give time for civilians to clear out. There was / is an attempt at genocide. Leave it to you guys though to get it wrong as to who was intent on genocide. Just so you know who that was, it was the ones who have stated publicly their purpose in life is to wipe Israel from existence. It’s like some electrical circuit in the part of the brain that controls logic gets shorted out. You turn criminals into victims and victims into villains.
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I completely agree that there is no excuse for what hamas did.

Advance warning doesn't change the definition of genocide, Isreal has taken the retaliation father than acceptable. They are killing innocent people at a much greater number than hamas did. Since what hamas did was wrong, Isreal killing a thousand times more is equally as wrong.

I've never turned anything, they both can be wrong. Had Isreal's retaliation stopped at a reasonable point, which defensive tactics would have, it would be different, but they used the attack as an approval to become offensive and kill fast more people than they lost.

But you keep justifying it.

By your logic if one person is murdered, taking out the murders entire family lineage is an acceptable retaliation. I'm glad our legal system doesn't agree with you.
 
Callatoroy said:
What does that have to do with Iran / US conflict?
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Check the thread title

The president does seem to have lost some interest in the war on Iran and addressing the economic concerns of the American public., but he is laser focused on the Ballroom, the Arch, and the DC public golf course.
 
Callatoroy said:
What does that have to do with Iran / US conflict?
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It's just another demonstration that the man is incompetent and shouldn't be leading anything, especially the most powerful military in the world.

It demonstrates, again, what his true focus is, and that isn't the best interest of the country.

Yet the maga still love their bumbling old idiot.
 
wmheel1287 said:
And what part of Israel won't stop means we should be involved in their fight? Not just involved, but sacrificing FAR more in terms of cost...

If they want to fight to the bitter end, let them. We are not Israel's attack dog.
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It isn’t just Israel’s fight? How many Americans died on Oct 7th? How many have died at the hands of Iran’s actions since its revolution? How many more times does an Oct 7th have to happen for you to realize that you can’t reason with people like that? They would literally stone you and your partner / husband to death. Why would you not want to remove that mindset from the earth? Why do you think it’s ok for people like that to be able to hold the world’s economy hostage and have possession of a nuclear bomb? You have absolutely zero understanding of the level of evil we are dealing with or either you are so desensitized to it you can’t process it.
 
Callatoroy said:
It isn’t just Israel’s fight? How many Americans died on Oct 7th? How many have died at the hands of Iran’s actions since its revolution? How many more times does an Oct 7th have to happen for you to realize that you can’t reason with people like that? They would literally stone you and your partner / husband to death. Why would you not want to remove that mindset from the earth? Why do you think it’s ok for people like that to be able to hold the world’s economy hostage and have possession of a nuclear bomb? You have absolutely zero understanding of the level of evil we are dealing with or either you are so desensitized to it you can’t process it.
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Far, far fewer than the number of Iranians who have died from American and Israeli bombs. We killed 120 school kids on the first day of this war. Iran has no moral high ground, but that is no excuse for us to forfeit ours.
 
UNCatTech said:
I completely agree that there is no excuse for what hamas did.

Advance warning doesn't change the definition of genocide, Isreal has taken the retaliation father than acceptable. They are killing innocent people at a much greater number than hamas did. Since what hamas did was wrong, Isreal killing a thousand times more is equally as wrong.

I've never turned anything, they both can be wrong. Had Isreal's retaliation stopped at a reasonable point, which defensive tactics would have, it would be different, but they used the attack as an approval to become offensive and kill fast more people than they lost.

But you keep justifying it.

By your logic if one person is murdered, taking out the murders entire family lineage is an acceptable retaliation. I'm glad our legal system doesn't agree with you.
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And you keep skirting the issue or ignoring why so many civilians died. You seem to condone it in some weird way. That is at the heart of why so many died. So quit ignoring it and address it.
 
Callatoroy said:
And you keep skirting the issue or ignoring why so many civilians died. You seem to condone it in some weird way. That is at the heart of why so many died. So quit ignoring it and address it.
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Do you not see that you're applying the same moral and strategic reasoning as the Iranians? We do not have to fight the battle on their terms. But that's exactly what Trump, Hegseth and Bibi are doing.
 
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