Good faith privately-funded White House ballroom discussion

[Gmonet]

You have demonstrated an incredibly naive and limited grasp of ME history from 1949 - 2026.

If Iran gets a nuke, you can guarantee others will too.

Thankfully we have a president who, at least for now, seems committed to preventing it. Kind of funny that you guys claim far right wing religious nuts are a big threat to the country but don’t see a nuke in the hands of religious nuts whose religion teaches them to kill all non believers as a threat.

I assure you I've forgotten 10x more about ME history than you'll ever know. The far right wingnuts in the US are a threat to this country because THEY'RE HERE and IN POWER. They affect me and my life and my children's future. The Mullahs in Iran are mostly irrelevant to me. I wish Iran was ruled differently - two of my very good friends are from families that had to flee in the 70s - but how they are ruled doesn't actually affect my life.

You know little about Islam if you think the religion itself 'teaches them to kill all non believers'. Do their leaders at times? Yes, as have untold numbers of Christian leaders throughout history, and I'd suspect, at least privately, some in the US today.

 

[Callatoroy]

The JCPOA absolutely did not say Iran was allowed to acquire nukes at any point. In fact, it directly stated that there was a permanent prohibition on Iran ever seeking, developing or acquiring nuclear weapons based on its obligations under the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Now it did have a sunset provision at which point the specific limits on uranium enrichment levels enshrined in that agreement would expire. But in no way did it allow them to pursue a nuke at that point and in fact had a provision specifically prohibiting them from ever pursuing one. So you are either lying or terribly mistaken when you say the US said Iran could pursue nuclear weapons at any point.

Given how trustworthy Iran is, your argument is Iran can enrich uranium to a high level, but they wouldn’t strap it to one of their ICBMs that they were allowed to develop because they signed a non proliferation agreement? The same one that N Korea signed?

 

[Callatoroy]

Trump Live Updates: Bystander Hit in Shootout Involving Secret Service Near Washington Monument

www.nytimes.com

Trump Administration Live Updates: G.O.P. Proposes $1 Billion for Security Improvements in Ballroom Project​

Senate Republicans have inserted $1 billion for White House East Wing security enhancements in the immigration enforcement funding bill they hope to rush through Congress this month, setting up a political fight over a ballroom that President Trump has said would be financed with private money.

The leaders of the Judiciary and Homeland Security Committees on Monday released plans for the roughly $70 billion package, which would significantly bolster spending on Immigration and Customs Enforcement and border patrol through the end of Mr. Trump’s term using a party-line legislative process that can skirt a filibuster.

Better late than never

 

[Enigma94]

Given how trustworthy Iran is, your argument is Iran can enrich uranium to a high level, but they wouldn’t strap it to one of their ICBMs that they were allowed to develop because they signed a non proliferation agreement? The same one that N Korea signed?

No, my argument is that your assertion that it allowed them to pursue a nuke is factually incorrect, so you should stop saying it. If your premise is they are untrustworthy and therefore would have violated the agreement that they signed, which ties them to the NPA, then my question is why didn't they violate it prior to Trump ripping it up? And if your premise is that they can't be trusted to follow any agreement, then what kind of agreement is Trump going to structure that will all of a sudden make it so they follow this magical new one? You seem to think the JCPOA was a bad agreement, but you don't acknowledge that prior to it being thrown in the trash can it was actually working.

 

[farce©]

This board has no ability to think beyond this week. This is an America first issue. Allowing Israel to go to war with Iran unilaterally would be far more harmful to our economy for far longer than if we are controlling it. So far the economic impact has been minimal. So far we still have most of the ME on our side. So far the total loss of life has been limited. Unlike Iraq, Iran actually does have heu and icbms. Unlike Iraq Iran has stated their purpose in life is to kill Jews and they aren’t lying. It’s like a bunch of 9th graders who have no clue or understanding of how our national security would be affected or even what the issues affecting national security are. It isn’t limited to a military strike on US soil.

More complete and total bullshit.

 

[heelinhell]

Two things im certain of. (1) If this is how it ultimately plays out, i cant support that and it will damage the party in the midterms. Im flatly against this. (2) the hypocrisy to come from this board will be spectacular as it will act as if the dems are above last minute, late night political games.

I appreciate your response. The GQPers need just 51 votes to pass the bill. Will 4 GQPers defect and oppose Trump ? I doubt it.

I am not the least alarmed or even care that the spending package late last night. I understand why they did so and so do you. I was posting this because it informs us that government funding for the Trump Ballroom is a priority for Senate GQPers

 

[Callatoroy]

I assure you I've forgotten 10x more about ME history than you'll ever know. The far right wingnuts in the US are a threat to this country because THEY'RE HERE and IN POWER. They affect me and my life and my children's future. The Mullahs in Iran are mostly irrelevant to me. I wish Iran was ruled differently - two of my very good friends are from families that had to flee in the 70s - but how they are ruled doesn't actually affect my life.

You know little about Islam if you think the religion itself 'teaches them to kill all non believers'. Do their leaders at times? Yes, as have untold numbers of Christian leaders throughout history, and I'd suspect, at least privately, some in the US today.

Glad you think a nuclear armed Iran isn’t a threat to you and your kids future. Are you and they planning to live off grid and grow / raise your own food? The single one thing that touches us all is oil. It affects our economy more than anything else. While you and your kids are living beside the kilchers in Alaska and driving your horse and buggies, the rest of the sane country would rather not have a zealot with a nuke jerking our economic chain and expanding their terrorist network because now we have to worry that they have a nuke. As does the rest of the ME.

This isn’t Islamic theory. The mullahs in Iran want to wipe Israel off the map. How do I know that? Because they said so and because of Oct 7th. But hey, the gmonet family is having a pig pickin with the kilchers and living in ignorant bliss.

 

[wmheel1287]

Glad you think a nuclear armed Iran isn’t a threat to you and your kids future. Are you and they planning to live off grid and grow / raise your own food? The single one thing that touches us all is oil. It affects our economy more than anything else. While you and your kids are living beside the kilchers in Alaska and driving your horse and buggies, the rest of the sane country would rather not have a zealot with a nuke jerking our economic chain and expanding their terrorist network because now we have to worry that they have a nuke. As does the rest of the ME.

This isn’t Islamic theory. The mullahs in Iran want to wipe Israel off the map. How do I know that? Because they said so and because of Oct 7th. But hey, the gmonet family is having a pig pickin with the kilchers and living in ignorant bliss.

Why again are you so adamant that or actions must be dictated by perceived threats to Israel? What makes them so special?

 

[Callatoroy]

I appreciate your response. The GQPers need just 51 votes to pass the bill. Will 4 GQPers defect and oppose Trump ? I doubt it.

I am not the least alarmed or even care that the spending package late last night. I understand why they did so and so do you. I was posting this because it informs us that government funding for the Trump Ballroom is a priority for Senate GQPers

I hope they don’t vote for it but I can’t think of but 1 or 2 that might not. I despise reconciliation and am adamantly opposed to ending the filibuster even though way more pub agenda would get passed. Trump is pushing to end it because he knows the left will when it gets back in control.

 

[wmheel1287]

I hope they don’t vote for it but I can’t think of but 1 or 2 that might not. I despise reconciliation and am adamantly opposed to ending the filibuster even though way more pub agenda would get passed. Trump is pushing to end it because he knows the left will when it gets back in control.

There it is again... this absolute knowledge of a future calamity justifying a current action. Do you never recognize this pattern in your thought?

 

[Enigma94]

Glad you think a nuclear armed Iran isn’t a threat to you and your kids future. Are you and they planning to live off grid and grow / raise your own food? The single one thing that touches us all is oil. It affects our economy more than anything else. While you and your kids are living beside the kilchers in Alaska and driving your horse and buggies, the rest of the sane country would rather not have a zealot with a nuke jerking our economic chain and expanding their terrorist network because now we have to worry that they have a nuke. As does the rest of the ME.

This isn’t Islamic theory. The mullahs in Iran want to wipe Israel off the map. How do I know that? Because they said so and because of Oct 7th. But hey, the gmonet family is having a pig pickin with the kilchers and living in ignorant bliss.

Again this is all the same shit we heard prior to invading Iraq. If we don't do it now then you'll be dealing with WMD's and our way of life will end! It was all bullshit then and it's all bullshit now. The only difference is we still have a chance to avoid the catastrophe that another middle east war will bring.

 

[heelinhell]

Glad you think a nuclear armed Iran isn’t a threat to you and your kids future. Are you and they planning to live off grid and grow / raise your own food? The single one thing that touches us all is oil. It affects our economy more than anything else. While you and your kids are living beside the kilchers in Alaska and driving your horse and buggies, the rest of the sane country would rather not have a zealot with a nuke jerking our economic chain and expanding their terrorist network because now we have to worry that they have a nuke. As does the rest of the ME.

This isn’t Islamic theory. The mullahs in Iran want to wipe Israel off the map. How do I know that? Because they said so and because of Oct 7th. But hey, the gmonet family is having a pig pickin with the kilchers and living in ignorant bliss.

Just think where we would be if Trump had continued the JPOA. We had contained Iran's uranium enrichment program. We had 24 hour monitor monitoring of Iran activities. We had the support of our allies to support the enforcement of JPOA. There were no American lives lost There were no innocent Iranian lives lost. We did not spend billions of our taxpayer dollars to secure the JPOA.

It is my opinion that we would be far safer today if Trump had not torn up the JPOA.

 

[Callatoroy]

Why again are you so adamant that or actions must be dictated by perceived threats to Israel? What makes them so special?

Do you have any thoughts on what the possible outcomes would be to our economy and the disruption that would ensue in the ME for a long time if iran and israel were in a war without the US to control as much of it as it can? Think iran might want to hurt us as much as it could by keeping oil prices high? Think russia might want that? China? How about hamas and hez expanding their efforts with protection from iran. I'm literally stunned by so many that I honestly don't think have any kind of a grasp or can't think beyond "they can't blow me up" on how bad a nuked up iran would be for the world and have no clue at the level of evil their leaders are capable of and willing to inflict. Israel views it as existential, and with good reason. If oct 7 didn't give you or others clarity of iran's intent then you are either iran sympathizers or ignorant beyond belief. The vibe on this board is we would rather trust iran with a nuke than expend the effort to ensure they can't do all the things history has shown they want to do.

 

[lawtig02]

Do you have any thoughts on what the possible outcomes would be to our economy and the disruption that would ensue in the ME for a long time if iran and israel were in a war without the US to control as much of it as it can? Think iran might want to hurt us as much as it could by keeping oil prices high? Think russia might want that? China? How about hamas and hez expanding their efforts with protection from iran. I'm literally stunned by so many that I honestly don't think have any kind of a grasp or can't think beyond "they can't blow me up" on how bad a nuked up iran would be for the world and have no clue at the level of evil their leaders are capable of and willing to inflict. Israel views it as existential, and with good reason. If oct 7 didn't give you or others clarity of iran's intent then you are either iran sympathizers or ignorant beyond belief. The vibe on this board is we would rather trust iran with a nuke than expend the effort to ensure they can't do all the things history has shown they want to do.

No, the prevailing vibe on this board is that Iran would be far less likely to develop or obtain a nuke if they weren't concerned they were about to get blown to smithereens by the Israelis or the Americans.

 

[Callatoroy]

Again this is all the same shit we heard prior to invading Iraq. If we don't do it now then you'll be dealing with WMD's and our way of life will end! It was all bullshit then and it's all bullshit now. The only difference is we still have a chance to avoid the catastrophe that another middle east war will bring.

What part of iran has heu and an icbm do you not grasp? Nobody is questioning it. They fired a missle that traveled 2500 miles. It isn't up for debate.

 

[Enigma94]

What part of iran has heu and an icbm do you not grasp? Nobody is questioning it. They fired a missle that traveled 2500 miles. It isn't up for debate.

It also isn't up for debate that the reason they have enriched uranium is because Trump ripped up the agreement that kept them in check. So now you want to follow him into another middle eastern war. We wouldn't be here if your guy wasn't an egomaniacal idiot.

 

[heelinhell]

There it is again... this absolute knowledge of a future calamity justifying a current action. Do you never recognize this pattern in your thought?

Does any Democrat really think that our party will end the filibuster if they get control of the Senate ?

I have been a registered since 1972. We had the control of the Senate and House in 2021 and a Dem president. We could have ended the filibuster and rebalanced the SCOTUS, but we did not. It's just not in our DNA.

 

[Gmonet]

Sinema and Manchin weren't going to.

 

[Callatoroy]

No, the prevailing vibe on this board is that Iran would be far less likely to develop or obtain a nuke if they weren't concerned they were about to get blown to smithereens by the Israelis or the Americans.

No it isn't. Iran has been pursuing nukes for decades. They know if they get a nuke they will be immune from many terrorist acts because the price for holding iran accountable will be to high. Israel's actions against iran have been defensive or to prevent a nuclear bomb. Iran isn't worried israel is going to nuke it, especially after oct 7. A nuclear armed iran means increased global terrorism. Do you think they will just sit back and say now that we have a bomb we are safe from the US or israel blowing us up so let's disband all the proxies we have and live in unison with all our neighbors. It just emboldens them further.

We have tried to negotiate the end of iran pursuing nukes for decades. Obama, trump, biden, trump. Obama bent over for them but they still wouldn't agree to abandon nukes. Doesn't matter who or what concessions made to appease them, the one thing they won't ever agree to is to end their nuclear goal. Either keep kicking the can or stop their ability. Many on here clearly see no issue beyond "i'd rather they didn't have a nuke but it isn't going to affect me so...........fuck trump"

 

[Callatoroy]

Does any Democrat really think that our party will end the filibuster if they get control of the Senate ?

I have been a registered since 1972. We had the control of the Senate and House in 2021 and a Dem president. We could have ended the filibuster and rebalanced the SCOTUS, but we did not. It's just not in our DNA.

The entire party sans manchin and sinema were all about it. Who is going to stop it now?