GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

[superrific]

Not sure what you mean, but I'm planning on this being my last post. What I'm saying is largely falling on deaf ears.

"But there is no support to the fear...."

It's not just about fear of sexual assault. It's also not just about restrooms. It's about males in girl's/women's sports. It's about males in girl's/women's locker rooms and showers.

The only concern that is acknowledged here is concern about the feelings of trans men and women and THEIR feelings and THEIR comfort. The feelings of cis women are swept aside. In fact they are ridiculed for even having them. As I noted on my second post:

You admitted you were wrong about gay marriage because you believed the bullshit, and now you are all-in on repeating the same mistake. Have some self-respect, geez. Fool me once, fool me twice -- you know, all of that stuff.

Let's run a thought experiment. Suppose that 25% of cis women are really bothered by trans women in the bathroom (keep in mind that you've produced zero evidence that women actually think this is a problem, but let's go with it). 25% of cis women want "bathroom of sex assigned at birth." And 75% of women, understanding what that actually means in real life (i.e. it means men in the bathroom), do not want it. You would have us falling over ourselves crying for the 25% -- who you assert exist, though again have provided zero evidence for (and no, I'm not going to accept self-serving face time on TV from political actors, just as I wouldn't accept that as evidence on any issue). Why are they so special? Because they fit your narrative?

 

[ZenMode]

Question for @ZenMode, do you honestly look at every other person in a public restroom and wonder what's between their legs? Do the women you know go into the restroom and interrogate each person in there about what's between their legs?

Do you know anyone that's knowingly been in the restroom with a trans person?

Like I have said several times, this is not just an issue of restrooms. Out of the four things I've mentioned, sports, restrooms, locker rooms and showers, restrooms is probably the least concerning. It also isn't just a private sector issue. This would be a potential issue in public junior highs and high schools.

 

[lawtig02]

You admitted you were wrong about gay marriage because you believed the bullshit, and now you are all-in on repeating the same mistake. Have some self-respect, geez. Fool me once, fool me twice -- you know, all of that stuff.

Let's run a thought experiment. Suppose that 25% of cis women are really bothered by trans women in the bathroom (keep in mind that you've produced zero evidence that women actually think this is a problem, but let's go with it). 25% of cis women want "bathroom of sex assigned at birth." And 75% of women, understanding what that actually means in real life (i.e. it means men in the bathroom), do not want it. You would have us falling over ourselves crying for the 25% -- who you assert exist, though again have provided zero evidence for (and no, I'm not going to accept self-serving face time on TV from political actors, just as I wouldn't accept that as evidence on any issue). Why are they so special? Because they fit your narrative?

He wants to protect them whether they want it or not.

 

[ZenMode]

Having never been in a women’s locker room myself, do women really walk around naked in front of each other? I assume not but maybe I’m naive. Zen, you have any experience with this?

I've been going to LA Fitness/Esporta Fitness gyms for decades. Yes, I have seen plenty of naked men going to or coming from the showers.

 

[lawtig02]

I've been going to LA Fitness/Esporta Fitness gyms for decades. Yes, I have seen plenty of naked men going to or coming from the showers.

Interesting dodge.

 

[finesse]

I've been going to LA Fitness/Esporta Fitness gyms for decades. Yes, I have seen plenty of naked men going to or coming from the showers.

Have you been in the women's shower? When I was doing commercial construction, there was a serious difference in the placement of privacy panels and the like between women's restrooms and lockers and men's. Now, that was 20+ years ago but I still expect that what you see for men are not the same as what women experience. I don't see where your experience is relevant at all.

 

[hedge]

Having never been in a women’s locker room myself, do women really walk around naked in front of each other? I assume not but maybe I’m naive. Zen, you have any experience with this?

I know, right? Where are all these naked women walking around in front of each other?

 

[superrific]

I've been going to LA Fitness/Esporta Fitness gyms for decades. Yes, I have seen plenty of naked men going to or coming from the showers.

Have you seen that commercial where the dad says, "Everything I'm wearing, I've had since boot camp" and then the screen shows the phrase "Weird flex"?

That flex has nothing on this one for weirdness.

 

[UNCatTech]

Like I have said several times, this is not just an issue of restrooms. Out of the four things I've mentioned, sports, restrooms, locker rooms and showers, restrooms is probably the least concerning. It also isn't just a private sector issue. This would be a potential issue in public junior highs and high schools.

Ok, then substitute locker room for restroom, or shower, or sports.

The problem is you see them differently, when they are all the same in that the right is putting out this bullshit, when the numbers are basically nonexistent.

300million+ people in the US. The only area with examples is women's sports, where we have less than .0000001% participation. And those didn't attack women, they played sports with them. The same as you probably did at some point in life.

You have provided no examples of trans women attacking women in restrooms, showers, or locker rooms.

So, stop with the bs and answer the question.

 

[UNCatTech]

I've been going to LA Fitness/Esporta Fitness gyms for decades. Yes, I have seen plenty of naked men going to or coming from the showers.

Did you check to see if their junk was real? Make sure there were no scars from the attachment surgery?

This is a perfect example, no one is examining others in locker rooms.

My wife has mentioned that women walk around naked also. She's never seen anyone checking to make sure that the vaginas are original and that nothing was removed.

I can just see Zen now asking the guy in the locker room if his penis is factory equipment.

 

[UNCatTech]

He wants to protect them whether they want it or not.

It's interesting that they want to protect them weather they want it or not in this area but fuck'em if they need medical attention during pregnancy that requires termination of the pregnancy to save the life of the mother. They don't want to protect them then.

 

[UNCatTech]

Having never been in a women’s locker room myself, do women really walk around naked in front of each other? I assume not but maybe I’m naive. Zen, you have any experience with this?

According to my wife they do, but we have limited locker exposure.

At the YMCA that I used to go to, someone complained about the hanging dicks, so they asked men to wear a swimsuit in the in-locker sauna and other facilities and to cover themselves with a towel when moving around the locker.

In all of my years in gym lockers, I never cared about any other guy, clothed or not.

Maybe had I seen Arnold Palmer I would have had to take another look...

 

[Mulberry Heel]

It's interesting that they want to protect them weather they want it or not in this area but fuck'em if they need medical attention during pregnancy that requires termination of the pregnancy to save the life of the mother. They don't want to protect them then.

There are quite literally stories of pregnant women who have died in red states like Texas because they could not get lifesaving medical attention due to the extremely harsh and restrictive abortion laws in their states, and yet conservatives are not bothered at all. Probably because they never hear such stories on right-wing media or they just refuse to believe them. Or, as you said, they just don't care what happens to other women outside their own friends and family.

 

[ZenMode]

As I referenced earlier, the view of posters on this forum can be summarized like this:

Negative feelings and comfortableness of trans women, as it relates to female spaces, is important and legitimate. Any negative feelings or lack of comfortableness on the part of cis women, as it relates to biological males in female areas, is illegitimate and unimportant.

 

[lawtig02]

As I referenced earlier, the view of posters on this forum can be summarized like this:

Negative feelings and comfortableness of trans people, as it relates to female spaces, is important and legitimate. Any negative feelings or lack of comfortableness on the part of cis women, as it relates to biological males in female areas, is illegitimate and unimportant.

Not at all, but that is a pretty good summary of your position, with the roles reversed.

 

[ZenMode]

Not at all, but that is a pretty good summary of your position, with the roles reversed.

I've said nothing derogatory about the trans side of things. All that I have focused on is how the two sides are treated differently. I've given multiple examples from this site where cis women are called transphobic, liars, prudes and obsessed with genitals simply for expressing their feelings and their uncomfortableness with biological males in their spaces.

That fact means nothing as far as my view of the trans side.

 

[superrific]

I've said nothing derogatory about the trans side of things. All that I have focused on is how the two sides are treated differently. I've given multiple examples from this site where cis women are called transphobic, liars, prudes and obsessed with genitals simply for expressing their feelings and their uncomfortableness with biological males in their spaces.

What you have completely failed to do is provide any evidence that cis women actually have any discomfort about what happens in their bathrooms.

And I would argue that the complete lack of any incidents coming from people in trans bathrooms, combined with the fact that trans women have been using women's bathrooms for generations, combined with the observations made by people here that cis women would generally have no idea what genitals would be sported by whom because they aren't checking -- all of that demonstrates that this is not actually an issue.

Stop assuming your own conclusion. Your argument is:

1. I am going to tell you, contrary to all logic and experience, that so many women really are concerned about this, and I am going to expect you to take my word for it with no evidence at all;
2. When you call into question my claim, even if only for lack of evidence, I will accuse you of disrespecting the apocryphal cis women who are so concerned about this;
3. Both sides!!!!!111!!11

 

[ZenMode]

What you have completely failed to do is provide any evidence that cis women actually have any discomfort about what happens in their bathrooms.

And I would argue that the complete lack of any incidents coming from people in trans bathrooms, combined with the fact that trans women have been using women's bathrooms for generations, combined with the observations made by people here that cis women would generally have no idea what genitals would be sported by whom because they aren't checking -- all of that demonstrates that this is not actually an issue.

Stop assuming your own conclusion. Your argument is:

1. I am going to tell you, contrary to all logic and experience, that so many women really are concerned about this, and I am going to expect you to take my word for it with no evidence at all;
2. When you call into question my claim, even if only for lack of evidence, I will accuse you of disrespecting the apocryphal cis women who are so concerned about this;
3. Both sides!!!!!111!!11

I think it's odd that you would even take the position that NO female gym-goer would take issue with it, but ok:

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

A transgender woman’s use of the women’s locker room in a suburban St. Louis gym prompted a protest, a plan for a boycott and calls for an investigation.

www.kctv5.com

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

“My friend said to his accompanied Planet Fitness rep that he needs to leave.”

In response, “This woman told my friend that if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” according to Silva.

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

The gym has since assigned a staffer to accompany the person in the ladies-only area — and is telling other women “if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” The Post has …

nypost.com

"Both sides!!!!!111!!11"

Do you really have no interest in understanding both sides of situations?

 

[ChileG]

What is bad? In this thread, I've seen posters imply that women who don't want men in their restroom are prudes or are lying. I've seen posters expressing obvious contempt for females who don't want to compete against men in sports. I've seen the idea of using the restroom that aligns with your biological gender as obsessing over genitals or is the result of transphobia.

Maybe I missed it, not only here but in the liberal media in general, but I see virtually no concern for the side of biological females.

In regards to bathrooms, I think a lot of people such as myself and others here have already gone through the calculus and decided there really is only one logical solution and it is the one that has been working for many, many years.
As far as sports, I think it should be up to the governing bodies of the various leagues.

 

[lawtig02]

I think it's odd that you would even take the position that NO female gym-goer would take issue with it, but ok:

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

A transgender woman’s use of the women’s locker room in a suburban St. Louis gym prompted a protest, a plan for a boycott and calls for an investigation.

www.kctv5.com

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

“My friend said to his accompanied Planet Fitness rep that he needs to leave.”

In response, “This woman told my friend that if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” according to Silva.

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

The gym has since assigned a staffer to accompany the person in the ladies-only area — and is telling other women “if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” The Post has …

nypost.com

Ah.

“In 2021, Silva ran for a seat on the Fairbanks state Assembly and she was a campaign coordinator for Republican Dan Sullivan, who is the state’s junior senator.”