GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender Americans

[ZenMode]

As I referenced earlier, the view of posters on this forum can be summarized like this:

Negative feelings and comfortableness of trans women, as it relates to female spaces, is important and legitimate. Any negative feelings or lack of comfortableness on the part of cis women, as it relates to biological males in female areas, is illegitimate and unimportant.

 

[lawtig02]

As I referenced earlier, the view of posters on this forum can be summarized like this:

Negative feelings and comfortableness of trans people, as it relates to female spaces, is important and legitimate. Any negative feelings or lack of comfortableness on the part of cis women, as it relates to biological males in female areas, is illegitimate and unimportant.

Not at all, but that is a pretty good summary of your position, with the roles reversed.

 

[ZenMode]

Not at all, but that is a pretty good summary of your position, with the roles reversed.

I've said nothing derogatory about the trans side of things. All that I have focused on is how the two sides are treated differently. I've given multiple examples from this site where cis women are called transphobic, liars, prudes and obsessed with genitals simply for expressing their feelings and their uncomfortableness with biological males in their spaces.

That fact means nothing as far as my view of the trans side.

 

[superrific]

I've said nothing derogatory about the trans side of things. All that I have focused on is how the two sides are treated differently. I've given multiple examples from this site where cis women are called transphobic, liars, prudes and obsessed with genitals simply for expressing their feelings and their uncomfortableness with biological males in their spaces.

What you have completely failed to do is provide any evidence that cis women actually have any discomfort about what happens in their bathrooms.

And I would argue that the complete lack of any incidents coming from people in trans bathrooms, combined with the fact that trans women have been using women's bathrooms for generations, combined with the observations made by people here that cis women would generally have no idea what genitals would be sported by whom because they aren't checking -- all of that demonstrates that this is not actually an issue.

Stop assuming your own conclusion. Your argument is:

1. I am going to tell you, contrary to all logic and experience, that so many women really are concerned about this, and I am going to expect you to take my word for it with no evidence at all;
2. When you call into question my claim, even if only for lack of evidence, I will accuse you of disrespecting the apocryphal cis women who are so concerned about this;
3. Both sides!!!!!111!!11

 

[ZenMode]

What you have completely failed to do is provide any evidence that cis women actually have any discomfort about what happens in their bathrooms.

And I would argue that the complete lack of any incidents coming from people in trans bathrooms, combined with the fact that trans women have been using women's bathrooms for generations, combined with the observations made by people here that cis women would generally have no idea what genitals would be sported by whom because they aren't checking -- all of that demonstrates that this is not actually an issue.

Stop assuming your own conclusion. Your argument is:

1. I am going to tell you, contrary to all logic and experience, that so many women really are concerned about this, and I am going to expect you to take my word for it with no evidence at all;
2. When you call into question my claim, even if only for lack of evidence, I will accuse you of disrespecting the apocryphal cis women who are so concerned about this;
3. Both sides!!!!!111!!11

I think it's odd that you would even take the position that NO female gym-goer would take issue with it, but ok:

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

A transgender woman’s use of the women’s locker room in a suburban St. Louis gym prompted a protest, a plan for a boycott and calls for an investigation.

www.kctv5.com

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

“My friend said to his accompanied Planet Fitness rep that he needs to leave.”

In response, “This woman told my friend that if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” according to Silva.

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

The gym has since assigned a staffer to accompany the person in the ladies-only area — and is telling other women “if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” The Post has …

nypost.com

"Both sides!!!!!111!!11"

Do you really have no interest in understanding both sides of situations?

 

[ChileG]

What is bad? In this thread, I've seen posters imply that women who don't want men in their restroom are prudes or are lying. I've seen posters expressing obvious contempt for females who don't want to compete against men in sports. I've seen the idea of using the restroom that aligns with your biological gender as obsessing over genitals or is the result of transphobia.

Maybe I missed it, not only here but in the liberal media in general, but I see virtually no concern for the side of biological females.

In regards to bathrooms, I think a lot of people such as myself and others here have already gone through the calculus and decided there really is only one logical solution and it is the one that has been working for many, many years.
As far as sports, I think it should be up to the governing bodies of the various leagues.

 

[lawtig02]

I think it's odd that you would even take the position that NO female gym-goer would take issue with it, but ok:

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

A transgender woman’s use of the women’s locker room in a suburban St. Louis gym prompted a protest, a plan for a boycott and calls for an investigation.

www.kctv5.com

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

“My friend said to his accompanied Planet Fitness rep that he needs to leave.”

In response, “This woman told my friend that if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” according to Silva.

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

The gym has since assigned a staffer to accompany the person in the ladies-only area — and is telling other women “if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” The Post has …

nypost.com

Ah.

“In 2021, Silva ran for a seat on the Fairbanks state Assembly and she was a campaign coordinator for Republican Dan Sullivan, who is the state’s junior senator.”

 

[superrific]

I think it's odd that you would even take the position that NO female gym-goer would take issue with it, but ok:

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

Transgender woman’s use of a gym locker room spurs protests and investigations in Missouri

A transgender woman’s use of the women’s locker room in a suburban St. Louis gym prompted a protest, a plan for a boycott and calls for an investigation.

www.kctv5.com

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

“My friend said to his accompanied Planet Fitness rep that he needs to leave.”

In response, “This woman told my friend that if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” according to Silva.

Planet Fitness assigns staffer to assist transgender client in women’s locker room: ‘If you are uncomfortable, you can use a stall’

The gym has since assigned a staffer to accompany the person in the ladies-only area — and is telling other women “if you are uncomfortable you can go into a stall,” The Post has …

nypost.com

Funny. I still don't see any evidence of women being upset about this. All your link shows is Andrew Bailey -- a cis man -- trying to posture for the cameras to announce an investigation into the gym following the law. And I didn't take the position that *no* woman anywhere might take issue for any legit reason. You have yet to show that these "uncomfortable" women are anything but a tiny segment of the population.

It is also extremely important to note that "protest" was not in response to anything that the trans person did. It was in response to the trans person's existence. I await any evidence whatsoever of a trans person harming women in a bathroom. I have never seen that reported anywhere that wasn't easily debunked. So if there are a few women here or there who want to get upset about this, you're right, I don't fucking care because their position is basically that trans people shouldn't exist and since that is impossible and unscientific. They might as well get angry about new moons. If your position amounts to denying a person's right to exist, then I have no respect for you whatsoever. I won't apologize for that. If you think this is a both sides thing, not only are you sorely mistaken, but you're doing an evil deed by continuing to parrot that bullshit.

The following positions are all basically the same, and I don't care about the "feelings" of the people associated with them because they are antisocial:

A. Anti-vaxers
B. Trans deniers
C. Climate change deniers
D. Don't say gay bullshitters
E. anti-CRT, anti-DEI, pro-white complainers.

What all of these positions have in common is: a) a complete disregard for science and in some cases reality; b) holding positions that cause needless pain to thousands, millions or billions of people depending on the specific issue; and c) an utterly selfish and myopic focus on their own "rights" to the exclusion of the interests of anyone else.

Fuck them all. You want to defend them, go right ahead. Just know who you are aligning with and who you are aligning against. You're with the kooks and the haters and against respectable, educated, knowledgeable people.

 

[superrific]

Ah.

“In 2021, Silva ran for a seat on the Fairbanks state Assembly and she was a campaign coordinator for Republican Dan Sullivan, who is the state’s junior senator.”

And indeed, she's taking photos of other people in bathrooms. But the weirdos are the ones not taking bathroom photos!!1!1!

 

[ZenMode]

Funny. I still don't see any evidence of women being upset about this. All your link shows is Andrew Bailey -- a cis man -- trying to posture for the cameras to announce an investigation into the gym following the law. And I didn't take the position that *no* woman anywhere might take issue for any legit reason. You have yet to show that these "uncomfortable" women are anything but a tiny segment of the population.

It is also extremely important to note that "protest" was not in response to anything that the trans person did. It was in response to the trans person's existence. I await any evidence whatsoever of a trans person harming women in a bathroom. I have never seen that reported anywhere that wasn't easily debunked. So if there are a few women here or there who want to get upset about this, you're right, I don't fucking care because their position is basically that trans people shouldn't exist and since that is impossible and unscientific. They might as well get angry about new moons. If your position amounts to denying a person's right to exist, then I have no respect for you whatsoever. I won't apologize for that. If you think this is a both sides thing, not only are you sorely mistaken, but you're doing an evil deed by continuing to parrot that bullshit.

The following positions are all basically the same, and I don't care about the "feelings" of the people associated with them because they are antisocial:

A. Anti-vaxers
B. Trans deniers
C. Climate change deniers
D. Don't say gay bullshitters
E. anti-CRT, anti-DEI, pro-white complainers.

What all of these positions have in common is: a) a complete disregard for science and in some cases reality; b) holding positions that cause needless pain to thousands, millions or billions of people depending on the specific issue; and c) an utterly selfish and myopic focus on their own "rights" to the exclusion of the interests of anyone else.

Fuck them all. You want to defend them, go right ahead. Just know who you are aligning with and who you are aligning against. You're with the kooks and the haters and against respectable, educated, knowledgeable people.

"I await any evidence whatsoever of a trans person harming women in a bathroom. "

Nice goal post shift. Equally nice straw man.

I'll try again, for at least the 4th time....

From page 15 (I believe) on, I have been talking about how differently the two sides of the situation are treated AS IT RELATES TO FEELINGS AND COMFORTABLENESS. (Maybe using all caps will help it stick?)

Feelings and comfortableness are the basis for allowing trans women into cis women's areas. There has been NO acknowledgement of the feelings or comfortableness of cis women who are being asked (required) to allow biological males into their spaces. In fact as I have repeatedly posted, cis women have been mocked, ridiculed and insulted for not wanting biological males in their spaces. I provided specific, and in some cases word-for-word examples including a reference to your post about sports.

Your approach is apparently to just pretend that cis women who are bothered by it simply don't exist.

Since page 15, I've also acknowledged multiple times that the bathroom situation is the least concerning of the four situations being discussed.

This is why I said I'm giving up trying to have this discussion. It is clear that it is not possible with the people most active in the discussion.

 

[superrific]

There has been NO acknowledgement of the feelings or comfortableness of cis women who are being asked (required) to allow biological males into their spaces.

That's in part because there has been no evidence of that discomfort.

Look, stop whining like a baby bitch if you can't answer basic questions like: trans people have been using women's bathrooms for generations and nobody remotely cared until now. Until after the GOP lost its war against gay people. This trans thing popped up almost immediately after Obergefell. Explain why, please. Explain why we should take these newfound "concerns" seriously, when the very long history of our nation points to it never being a concern for anyone.

Of if you can't answer questions like: trans men with XX chromosomes look way, way, way more like men and would cause way, way, way more anxiety for women in locker rooms and bathrooms than trans women. So how do these bathroom bills help anyone in any way.

Or this: bathroom bills are actually the predator's best friend. A perv who wants to spy on women in showers currently has to dress up like a woman to get in the bathroom and that's a lot of effort and expense just to get off. But under a bathroom bill, all the perv has to do is walk in and if anyone asks, say "I'm XX, the law requires me to be here."

Or respond to the extensive evidence that all of this is in bad faith. Or account for the fact that you admitted you were on the wrong side of gay marriage, or indicate that you've learned any lessons (if you are in fact in favor of gay marriage which I doubt very much).

Not only are you the least Zen poster here, you're one of the most insistently whiny, crying, pouting posters I've ever seen. At least randman made an attempt to answer questions put to him. Usually with conspiracies but at least he tried. You don't even have the balls for that.

 

[Callatoroy]

That's in part because there has been no evidence of that discomfort.

Look, stop whining like a baby bitch if you can't answer basic questions like: trans people have been using women's bathrooms for generations and nobody remotely cared until now. Until after the GOP lost its war against gay people. This trans thing popped up almost immediately after Obergefell. Explain why, please. Explain why we should take these newfound "concerns" seriously, when the very long history of our nation points to it never being a concern for anyone.

Of if you can't answer questions like: trans men with XX chromosomes look way, way, way more like men and would cause way, way, way more anxiety for women in locker rooms and bathrooms than trans women. So how do these bathroom bills help anyone in any way.

Or this: bathroom bills are actually the predator's best friend. A perv who wants to spy on women in showers currently has to dress up like a woman to get in the bathroom and that's a lot of effort and expense just to get off. But under a bathroom bill, all the perv has to do is walk in and if anyone asks, say "I'm XX, the law requires me to be here."

Or respond to the extensive evidence that all of this is in bad faith. Or account for the fact that you admitted you were on the wrong side of gay marriage, or indicate that you've learned any lessons (if you are in fact in favor of gay marriage which I doubt very much).

Not only are you the least Zen poster here, you're one of the most insistently whiny, crying, pouting posters I've ever seen. At least randman made an attempt to answer questions put to him. Usually with conspiracies but at least he tried. You don't even have the balls for that.

"According to a 2021 YouGov survey, 43% of women believe transgender women should not be allowed to use women's changing rooms, and 42% believe they should not be allowed to use women's restrooms."

 

[ZenMode]

That's in part because there has been no evidence of that discomfort.

Do you honestly believe, given the wide range of personalities, religions, cultures, etc that there would be literally no women who are uncomfortable with a male in their locker room while they are changing or walking to/from the shower. Is that really what you are selling here?

Look, stop whining like a baby bitch if you can't answer basic questions like: trans people have been using women's bathrooms for generations and nobody remotely cared until now. Until after the GOP lost its war against gay people. This trans thing popped up almost immediately after Obergefell. Explain why, please. Explain why we should take these newfound "concerns" seriously, when the very long history of our nation points to it never being a concern for anyone.

You really can't help yourself, can you? You just have to go back to the bathroom issue despite the fact that I have repeatedly said it is the one I'm least concerned about.

Any bad faith that exists has absolutely no relevance in a discussion about cis women who are being asked to undress and shower in front of strange males.

Of if you can't answer questions like: trans men with XX chromosomes look way, way, way more like men and would cause way, way, way more anxiety for women in locker rooms and bathrooms than trans women. So how do these bathroom bills help anyone in any way.

Again with the bathroom bills. The first sign that a biological male is in your locker, shower, sauna, etc would probably be his dick and balls... just throwing that out there because it's apparently not obvious.

Or this: bathroom bills are actually the predator's best friend. A perv who wants to spy on women in showers currently has to dress up like a woman to get in the bathroom and that's a lot of effort and expense just to get off. But under a bathroom bill, all the perv has to do is walk in and if anyone asks, say "I'm XX, the law requires me to be here."

Or respond to the extensive evidence that all of this is in bad faith. Or account for the fact that you admitted you were on the wrong side of gay marriage, or indicate that you've learned any lessons (if you are in fact in favor of gay marriage which I doubt very much).

Again, and for I think the 5th time, this is about the way the cis woman and trans woman's feeling and comfortableness are treated differently. YOU want to keep going back to politics and bad faith and have now apparently taken the position that NO females could be made to feel uncomfortable by seeing a strange, naked male in their locker room, shower, sauna. Not all woman are prepared to go public with their feelings. They may not want the attention and the truth is that the risk of backlash is real. There is a portion of the Left who don't want open conversation or honesty. They want to silence opposing opinions and not everyone is willing to have that fight, so they might just change gym or stop going all together.

Not only are you the least Zen poster here, you're one of the most insistently whiny, crying, pouting posters I've ever seen. At least randman made an attempt to answer questions put to him. Usually with conspiracies but at least he tried. You don't even have the balls for that.

Doubling down on personal insults. Nice. Maybe grow up?

 

[ZenMode]

"According to a 2021 YouGov survey, 43% of women believe transgender women should not be allowed to use women's changing rooms, and 42% believe they should not be allowed to use women's restrooms."

Bullshit! I need names, addresses and references for superrificlyobtuse!

 

[superrific]

Any bad faith that exists has absolutely no relevance in a discussion about cis women who are being asked to undress and shower in front of strange males.

Except that doesn't happen because, as has been explained to you many, many times, they are not men.

The idea that bad faith should not a part of this discussion is astounding. Bad faith is a part of every discussion where it exists, which is most places. For example: some of the people on the left who are pushing the Dems to do Bernie type stuff -- a lot of that is bad faith. Not all. But there are people who have been looking for any excuse to do Bernie politics and this is their opportunity. What they aren't taking seriously is the culture war stuff and the decisive role that plays in our elections.

As I said, of course there will at least a few women who are uncomfortable with that. You can find people who will endorse anything. There were women reporting that they had been magnetized by the Covid vaccine. That doesn't remotely address the issue.

And again you've dodged the questions asked of you because you really are a shitty bad faith poster. If you were someone respectable, then you'd answer the questions instead of a) posting links of people being upset about trans people in bathrooms (a category that includes locker rooms, as the bathroom parts of locker rooms are the most sensitive in this discussions and then b) complaining "again with the bathrooms." Like, I'm using your own fucking examples of the exact thing you claim to care about and you say I'm shifting the goalposts.

Answer the question: why is this is a problem now, all of a sudden, when trans people have been using the bathrooms of their choice for generations? Why won't the solution that we've always gone with -- i.e. to do nothing, because it's not a problem -- continue to work? You are too much of a fucking coward to address other peoples' questions.

Your goal, always, is to have the conversation be on your terms and your terms only, and you will continue to be more and more ridiculous in service of that goal until you are a caricature. Your persona on this board is Laura Loomer's face. You contort yourself until you look like a cartoon doll rather than engage in any actual conversation.

 

[lawtig02]

"According to a 2021 YouGov survey, 43% of women believe transgender women should not be allowed to use women's changing rooms, and 42% believe they should not be allowed to use women's restrooms."

So the majority thinks they should? I’m so confused about when you guys think the majority should rule and when it should not.

 

[ZenMode]

Except that doesn't happen because, as has been explained to you many, many times, they are not men.

The idea that bad faith should not a part of this discussion is astounding. Bad faith is a part of every discussion where it exists, which is most places. For example: some of the people on the left who are pushing the Dems to do Bernie type stuff -- a lot of that is bad faith. Not all. But there are people who have been looking for any excuse to do Bernie politics and this is their opportunity. What they aren't taking seriously is the culture war stuff and the decisive role that plays in our elections.

As I said, of course there will at least a few women who are uncomfortable with that. You can find people who will endorse anything. There were women reporting that they had been magnetized by the Covid vaccine. That doesn't remotely address the issue.

And again you've dodged the questions asked of you because you really are a shitty bad faith poster. If you were someone respectable, then you'd answer the questions instead of a) posting links of people being upset about trans people in bathrooms (a category that includes locker rooms, as the bathroom parts of locker rooms are the most sensitive in this discussions and then b) complaining "again with the bathrooms." Like, I'm using your own fucking examples of the exact thing you claim to care about and you say I'm shifting the goalposts.

Answer the question: why is this is a problem now, all of a sudden, when trans people have been using the bathrooms of their choice for generations? Why won't the solution that we've always gone with -- i.e. to do nothing, because it's not a problem -- continue to work? You are too much of a fucking coward to address other peoples' questions.

Your goal, always, is to have the conversation be on your terms and your terms only, and you will continue to be more and more ridiculous in service of that goal until you are a caricature. Your persona on this board is Laura Loomer's face. You contort yourself until you look like a cartoon doll rather than engage in any actual conversation.

"Except that doesn't happen because, as has been explained to you many, many times, they are not men. "

Which is why I said "strange MALES " in the post YOU quoted....you illiterate twat.

"Answer the question: why is this is a problem now, all of a sudden, when trans people have been using the bathrooms of their choice for generations? "

Because you have biological males (trans women) being allowed in more and more cis women's spaces and thanks to social media and politics/DEI there's more awareness, so the issue is being naturally forced into the spotlight.

• Biological males (trans women) playing in girls sports
• Biological males (trans women) in gym locker rooms
• Biological males (trans women) impregnating females in prison
• Biological males (trans women) sexually assaulting girls in public school restrooms
• Biological males (trans women) in the military
• Biological males (trans women) in high level government positions

 

[ChileG]

That transgendered women have been using the women’s bathrooms and locker rooms for decades and a segment of cis women are just now becoming aware due to social media and politics is an interesting point.

 

[Lando]

So the majority thinks they should? I’m so confused about when you guys think the majority should rule and when it should not.

Given that the tyranny of the majority is the backbone of one poster’s argument, it’s safe to say every time save for when Republicans could lose. With the extreme deference to the majority put forward in this thread, the murder of every single LGBTQ person could be justified so long as more people would enjoy murdering than there would be murder victims.

 

[ZenMode]

"Except that doesn't happen because, as has been explained to you many, many times, they are not men. "

Which is why I said "strange MALES " in the post YOU quoted....you illiterate twat.

"Answer the question: why is this is a problem now, all of a sudden, when trans people have been using the bathrooms of their choice for generations? "

Because you have biological males (trans women) being allowed in more and more cis women's spaces and thanks to social media and politics/DEI there's more awareness, so the issue is being naturally forced into the spotlight.

• Biological males (trans women) playing in girls sports
• Biological males (trans women) in gym locker rooms
• Biological males (trans women) impregnating females in prison
• Biological males (trans women) sexually assaulting girls in public school restrooms
• Biological males (trans women) in the military
• Biological males (trans women) in high level government positions

Yes I'm quoting myself.....

I'll do add that it's more prominent because society is more accepting of trans people. So, in the past they may have only frequented bars where they knew it was "safe" or may have dressed in line with their biological sex when going to the gym, work, etc. I have absolutely seen more trans people in the last few years than I probably have in my entire life.