GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

[ChileG]

Imagine the obscene arrogance and lack of self-awareness to not only refuse to participate in the democratic process, but to then blame the side that lost for the negative result.

Luckily for us, we don’t have to imagine.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

This executive order doesn't just focus on teachers not being allowed to call transgender students by their preferred name, but it is considerably more broad in that it attacks the whole idea of discussing the darker parts and uglier aspects of American history. Teaching that the United States has not been "fundamentally racist, sexist, or discriminatory" throughout its history is a flat-out lie. Yes there have certainly been improvements, but there have also been setbacks and the job is still far from finished. This EO comes directly from what GOP governors like DeSantis in Florida or Abbott in Texas have been doing for the past several years, and from what conservative education activists like Chris Rufo have been pushing.

 

[Zoo_View]

I hear you, and I’m sure some people have made that argument. I might have made that argument myself when I was young & naive but I, like so many others, have grown to accept homosexuality without even a 2nd thought with the passage of time.

The major difference here is that being homosexual is literally based on something that we’ve all experienced: you like what you like, and you can’t help it much. Whether that’s talking about a romantic interest or a favorite food. Can’t really help what you like. Being transgender is a lot different than that because you are trying to convince someone that you literally *are* something you are not.

If someone says “I like spinach” who am I to tell them they are wrong? But if someone says “I literally am spinach” it’s ok for society to tell them they aren’t. Just my opinion and I don’t mind if you disagree.

Wow.

• “…..I literally am spinach….”

 

[Zoo_View]

The issue will be recognizing a trans person. Every trans person I know, one would not know unless they are told.

I guess he could go somewhere where there is a greater chance of meeting a trans person.

Yeah……that’s happening.

 

[hedge]

Excuse me if I don’t take that science as the gospel. This is absolutely an area that is highly up for debate.

I trust science a lot more than I trust the gospels (speaking of an area that is absolutely highly up for debate)...

 

[HeelYeah2012]

I trust science a lot more than I trust the gospels (speaking of an area that is absolutely highly up for debate)...

I completely agree that the gospels is an area that is highly up for debate, and I would look silly if I sat here and tried to speak about them like they were clearly correct and anyone who disagreed was a buffoon.

But that's exactly what people here do when someone suggests that being transgender is a mental disorder, despite the fact that scientists themselves called it gender identity disorder as recently as like 10 years ago.

 

[hedge]

I long for the day when religious belief will be considered a disorder, and I believe that day will come, but I don't think I'll live to see it...

 

[Zoo_View]

I completely agree that the gospels is an area that is highly up for debate, and I would look silly if I sat here and tried to speak about them like they were clearly correct and anyone who disagreed was a buffoon.

But that's exactly what people here do when someone suggests that being transgender is a mental disorder, despite the fact that scientists themselves called it gender identity disorder as recently as like 10 years ago.

In 1980, with the publication of DSM-III, “transsexualism” was first mentioned in a DSM. Prior to DSM-III, “transsexualism” wasn’t mentioned.

In 1994, with the publication of DSM-IV, scientists thought “transsexualism” potentially stigmatized people and they switched to “gender identity disorder.”

In 2013, with the publication of DSM-5, “Gender Identity Disorder” was changed to “Gender Dysphoria” because the mental health issue wasn’t gender identity.

As the scientists have learned more, they’ve sought and debated over names and terms that better define things/situations. More importantly, they’ve sought and learned better ways to help trans people.

Being a “tough” parent will not help a trans child.

 

[hedge]

The DSM used to classify homosexuality as a disorder. I wonder if HY still believe in that science. Actually, I don't wonder...

 

[superrific]

But that's exactly what people here do when someone suggests that being transgender is a mental disorder, despite the fact that scientists themselves called it gender identity disorder as recently as like 10 years ago.

The problem is that you have no idea what any of these words mean.

Gender dysphoria *** IS *** a disorder. That is to say, it's a psychiatric condition that benefits from treatment. The renaming was just that -- a renaming (well, there were a few other minor classification changes but nothing like what you're thinking). Our understanding of the condition has not really changed.

When you refer to it as a mental disorder, you are actually arguing against your own case and you don't even know it. Because a disorder implies treatment. And treatment, in the case of gender dysphoria, usually involves a sex change or hormone therapy. So literally, your desire to see it as a disorder undermines your position.

I'm pretty sure that you think "disorder" means something else. You want to call it a disorder because you think that's similar in meaning to freak. Psychiatry doesn't work that way. But what do I know? My wife is a psychiatrist with about 15 trans patients at the moment.

 

[HeelYeah2012]

The problem is that you have no idea what any of these words mean.

Gender dysphoria *** IS *** a disorder. That is to say, it's a psychiatric condition that benefits from treatment. The renaming was just that -- a renaming (well, there were a few other minor classification changes but nothing like what you're thinking). Our understanding of the condition has not really changed.

When you refer to it as a mental disorder, you are actually arguing against your own case and you don't even know it. Because a disorder implies treatment. And treatment, in the case of gender dysphoria, usually involves a sex change or hormone therapy. So literally, your desire to see it as a disorder undermines your position.

I'm pretty sure that you think "disorder" means something else. You want to call it a disorder because you think that's similar in meaning to freak. Psychiatry doesn't work that way. But what do I know? My wife is a psychiatrist with about 15 trans patients at the moment.

Thanks for sharing and I’m glad you agree with me it’s a disorder. Progress!

Just to clarify though, would you agree it’s a mental disorder or would you not be willing to to use “mental” as the adjective?

Similarly, would you be ok with it classified as “mental illness” or is that different than disorder?

Perhaps you and I are closer together than we might’ve thought and we mostly agree on the condition itself, but just disagree on the treatment side.

 

[finesse]

Thanks for sharing and I’m glad you agree with me it’s a disorder. Progress!

Just to clarify though, would you agree it’s a mental disorder or would you not be willing to to use “mental” as the adjective?

Similarly, would you be ok with it classified as “mental illness” or is that different than disorder?

Perhaps you and I are closer together than we might’ve thought and we mostly agree on the condition itself, but just disagree on the treatment side.

Just out of curiosity, why do you care how or why they want to be treated for this? What does that do to you or anybody else?

I don't see why I should feel hurt or deceived by any of this.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Just out of curiosity, why do you care how or why they want to be treated for this? What does that do to you or anybody else?

I don't see why I should feel hurt or deceived by any of this.

The GOP's claim to be the "party of small government" is absurd and is now being exposed as a lie. Telling other people what they can do and trying to force them to conform to the standards that cultural conservatives believe everyone should live under is a key driving principle of modern GOP politics.

 

[Healing]

We’re in the “I’m going to nitpick words I don’t fully understand” phase of the “I will try everything to obfuscate my bigotry” project.

 

[finesse]

The GOP's claim to be the "party of small government" is absurd and is now being exposed as a lie. Telling other people what they can do and trying to force them to conform to the standards that cultural conservatives believe everyone should live under is a key driving principle of modern GOP politics.

Don't know where you've been. It's actually more of a conservative Protestant thing. Until 70 or so, over 90% of American professed to be Christian and it was commonplace. It's why we have stupid drinking laws and such. There once a bunch of blue laws that prevented all sorts of things from being sold on Sunday.

It became more a political thing when white bigots and Evangelicals found that much of the country didn't think they were special and they united to strike back. There's a long history of Christians and white males symbiotically feeding on each others influence. Where we ended up is not a sudden development. It's the crystallization of ideas set in motion by conservatives starting in the 30s that wealth, faith and privilege outweigh any sharing of privileges with a tawdry lesser class.

 

[bassydude77]

My son has gone to school with biological female since preschool. This child has asked her friends to call her "he" since preschool. I think the kids might've been confused initially, but they don't really care so they called her "he". The teachers did not. The child is now 12 and a couple of years ago started going by a male name rather than his given name which was traditionally female. He has played sports with the boys as far back as I can remember. Teachers now call him he and by his new name. Nobody thinks twice about it and I would guess this child has had a wonderful childhood.

There will be a time in a the near future that more questions will be asked, and I'm sure at some point the child will need to deal with any associated issues, but I think allowing the child to live as they wished was far better than the alternative. It became clear in the first couple of years that this was something the child felt deeply about and knowing the parents I think it has prbably been discussed extensively.

 

[CFordUNC]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really understand the science involved in the whole sex, gender, and transgender discussion. I'll also admit that I haven't spent very much time at all in trying to understand it- because I don't really care at all. I don't think about it, ever. All I think about is just trying to do my best to treat everyone else with kindness, compassion, empathy, and respect. I don't care about their race, their ethnicity, their gender, their sex, their creed, or anything like that. If someone wants me to call them a particular name or address them by a particular pronoun, I'm happy to do it, without hesitation. I may screw up and forget, or I may make a mistake, or I may not understand the how or the why of it all, but I'll always have the good intention of trying my hardest to honor and respect someone's wishes of how they want to be addressed.

Why? Because it. quite. literally. does. no. harm. to me. and. it. might. make. all. the. difference. for. someone. else. so. what. in. the. ever. loving. fuck. does. it. hurt. to. just. be. kind?

I don't care what bathroom someone uses. I don't pay attention to anyone else when I'm in the bathroom. Don't care. Want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. I don't inherently care what sport someone wants to play with what gender, but I also understand that there are legitimate safety considerations that should be taken into account, so in general I believe that legislating sport participation by gender is best left to individual sport governing bodies and not to the government or to politicians.

I truly cannot imagine living my life in a way such that I care how other people want to think of themselves or identify themselves or ask to be addressed. Just cannot wrap my mind around having the bandwidth to care about something so unfathomably inconsequential to me.

 

[TullyHeel]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really understand the science involved in the whole sex, gender, and transgender discussion. I'll also admit that I haven't spent very much time at all in trying to understand it- because I don't really care at all. I don't think about it, ever. All I think about is just trying to do my best to treat everyone else with kindness, compassion, empathy, and respect. I don't care about their race, their ethnicity, their gender, their sex, their creed, or anything like that. If someone wants me to call them a particular name or address them by a particular pronoun, I'm happy to do it, without hesitation. I may screw up and forget, or I may make a mistake, or I may not understand the how or the why of it all, but I'll always have the good intention of trying my hardest to honor and respect someone's wishes of how they want to be addressed.

Why? Because it. quite. literally. does. no. harm. to me. and. it. might. make. all. the. difference. for. someone. else. so. what. in. the. ever. loving. fuck. does. it. hurt. to. just. be. kind?

I don't care what bathroom someone uses. I don't pay attention to anyone else when I'm in the bathroom. Don't care. Want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. I don't inherently care what sport someone wants to play with what gender, but I also understand that there are legitimate safety considerations that should be taken into account, so in general I believe that legislating sport participation by gender is best left to individual sport governing bodies and not to the government or to politicians.

I truly cannot imagine living my life in a way such that I care how other people want to think of themselves or identify themselves or ask to be addressed. Just cannot wrap my mind around having the bandwidth to care about something so unfathomably inconsequential to me.

I don't understand why it matters, either. But to some people it matters a great deal because they are ignorant, and they fear anything they don't understand and can't control.

 

[Paine]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really understand the science involved in the whole sex, gender, and transgender discussion. I'll also admit that I haven't spent very much time at all in trying to understand it- because I don't really care at all. I don't think about it, ever. All I think about is just trying to do my best to treat everyone else with kindness, compassion, empathy, and respect. I don't care about their race, their ethnicity, their gender, their sex, their creed, or anything like that. If someone wants me to call them a particular name or address them by a particular pronoun, I'm happy to do it, without hesitation. I may screw up and forget, or I may make a mistake, or I may not understand the how or the why of it all, but I'll always have the good intention of trying my hardest to honor and respect someone's wishes of how they want to be addressed.

Why? Because it. quite. literally. does. no. harm. to me. and. it. might. make. all. the. difference. for. someone. else. so. what. in. the. ever. loving. fuck. does. it. hurt. to. just. be. kind?

I don't care what bathroom someone uses. I don't pay attention to anyone else when I'm in the bathroom. Don't care. Want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. I don't inherently care what sport someone wants to play with what gender, but I also understand that there are legitimate safety considerations that should be taken into account, so in general I believe that legislating sport participation by gender is best left to individual sport governing bodies and not to the government or to politicians.

I truly cannot imagine living my life in a way such that I care how other people want to think of themselves or identify themselves or ask to be addressed. Just cannot wrap my mind around having the bandwidth to care about something so unfathomably inconsequential to me.

So many “Christians” have forgotten the simple maxim of the Golden Rule.

 

[CFordUNC]

So many “Christians” have forgotten the simple maxim of the Golden Rule.

It's so wild, man. Just hard for me to wrap my head around it mattering that much to some people. Guess I must be virtue signaling or whatever phrase they like to say, but if that's what they want to call "simply accepting others and being polite to them" then I reckon I'll wear the virtue signaling badge of honor.