GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

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@finesse You asked yesterday why I somewhat agreed with Elon about empathy being a weakness in the US. This topic is a good example. Throughout this thread, you see people referencing emotional aspects for trans women athletes. How difficult it is for them and how important it is that they feel accepted and comfortable.

That empathizing is why many on the left can't simply say "It's not fair or right to allow males to compete in female sports".
 
ZenMode said:
Sorry my scientific terminology bothers you....
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You aren't interested in science. The science of both sex and gender is overwhelmingly in support of trans people. You reject science and expertise on this board in virtually every interaction.

You're interested in bad faith arguments and exclusionary rhetoric.

I'm calling you on your bullshit, and saying this bullshit makes you sound weird and creepy.

Happy Pride!
 
ZenMode said:
@finesse You asked yesterday why I somewhat agreed with Elon about empathy being a weakness in the US. This topic is a good example. Throughout this thread, you see people referencing emotional aspects for trans women athletes. How difficult it is for them and how important it is that they feel accepted and comfortable.

That empathizing is why many on the left can't simply say "It's not fair or right to allow males to compete in female sports".
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All I got to say is that this is the epitome of empathy. Work out your disagreement with the guy who said this and we'll talk.


Matthew 7:12 KJV: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Luke 6:31 KJV: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
 
finesse said:
All I got to say is that this is the epitome of empathy. Work out your disagreement with the guy who said this and we'll talk.


Matthew 7:12 KJV: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Luke 6:31 KJV: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
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I couldn't possibly care less what Elon thinks, nor will he ever be aware of, much impacted by, my opininion.

Prior to the public rise in transgenderism, did you ever question the necessity of separating boys and girls, athletically, after a certain age?
 
finesse said:
All I got to say is that this is the epitome of empathy. Work out your disagreement with the guy who said this and we'll talk.


Matthew 7:12 KJV: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Luke 6:31 KJV: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
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On a side note, I don't believe in the existence of any gods, including the God of Abraham, so quoting the Bible, if your intention was to influence my opinion, will be as effective as quoting Harry Potter or the Iliad.
 
ZenMode said:
I couldn't possibly care less what Elon thinks, nor will he ever be aware of, much impacted by, my opininion.

Prior to the public rise in transgenderism, did you ever question the necessity of separating boys and girls, athletically, after a certain age?
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Show me statistics of the rise in transgenderism. Replace it with the recognition that it has always existed. Hell, they were frequently sacred in Native American cultures and have existed throughout recorded history.

In many Native American cultures, transgender and non-binary individuals have traditionally held a unique and revered status, often recognized as "Two-Spirit". This term, widely used by Indigenous communities, encompasses diverse gender identities and sexual orientations, recognizing that individuals can embody both masculine and feminine qualities. Two-Spirit individuals often served as spiritual leaders, healers, and ceremonial leaders within their communities.

No, I didn't question the necessity. I had a benighted Christian upbringing like you apparently did. Is it logical? Yes, but not necessary. As I've pointed out before, I have no problem with men's, women's and open events with the real champions being the open winners. Do I think that in the purely physical game that they will mostly be male? Yeah, but so what?

Why don't you save some feeling for the hungry, sick, lame and otherwise afflicted rather than the temporary disappointment of a minor character in a minor athletic contest of almost no real importance IRL?
 
ZenMode said:
On a side note, I don't believe in the existence of any gods, including the God of Abraham, so quoting the Bible, if your intention was to influence my opinion, will be as effective as quoting Harry Potter or the Iliad.
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Then you have fuck all reason to be concerned about it at all. I had allowed for you to have religious delusions but you're just a nosy PITA interfering in things of absolutely no concern of yours. What a jerk you are. What business is what anybody does with their body any of yours?
 
ZenMode said:
Prior to the public rise in transgenderism, did you ever question the necessity of separating boys and girls, athletically, after a certain age?
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Women's sports don't exist as a safety issue. They exist either to shield men's egos from the small number of women who can compete with them athletically, or to foster community among women through a means that we've given more social prestige than the typical ways that women create community (both are things that happen, but it's up for historical debate which happened first).

If we wanted to keep women and girls safe, we'd ban them from sports entirely - do you realize how many athletes are horrifically injured every year?
 
finesse said:
Show me statistics of the rise in transgenderism. Replace it with the recognition that it has always existed. Hell, they were frequently sacred in Native American cultures and have existed throughout recorded history.
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I said public rise, meaning it's more prominent in public.
finesse said:
In many Native American cultures, transgender and non-binary individuals have traditionally held a unique and revered status, often recognized as "Two-Spirit". This term, widely used by Indigenous communities, encompasses diverse gender identities and sexual orientations, recognizing that individuals can embody both masculine and feminine qualities. Two-Spirit individuals often served as spiritual leaders, healers, and ceremonial leaders within their communities.
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ok?
finesse said:
No, I didn't question the necessity. I had a benighted Christian upbringing like you apparently did.
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I have no idea why you keep trying to bring religion into this. My position has nothing to do with morality, nor do I believe gender dysphoria is any more immoral than bipolar disorder. My position is based in science, which is why I'm not arguing against trans men in male sports.
finesse said:
Is it logical? Yes, but not necessary.
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If you believe fairness in athletics it is necessary.
finesse said:
As I've pointed out before, I have no problem with men's, women's and open events with the real champions being the open winners. Do I think that in the purely physical game that they will mostly be male? Yeah, but so what?
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So, there are biological differences between males and females that give males a clear advantage.
finesse said:
Why don't you save some feeling for the hungry, sick, lame and otherwise afflicted rather than the temporary disappointment of a minor character in a minor athletic contest of almost no real importance IRL?
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This is how you rationalize your position based on empathy rather than reason.
 
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finesse said:
Then you have fuck all reason to be concerned about it at all. I had allowed for you to have religious delusions but you're just a nosy PITA interfering in things of absolutely no concern of yours. What a jerk you are. What business is what anybody does with their body any of yours?
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Deflection isn't going to work.
 
akillesheel said:
Women's sports don't exist as a safety issue. They exist either to shield men's egos from the small number of women who can compete with them athletically,
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akillesheel said:
or to foster community among women through a means that we've given more social prestige than the typical ways that women create community (both are things that happen, but it's up for historical debate which happened first).

If we wanted to keep women and girls safe, we'd ban them from sports entirely - do you realize how many athletes are horrifically injured every year?
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Strawman.
 
finesse said:
Then you have fuck all reason to be concerned about it at all. I had allowed for you to have religious delusions but you're just a nosy PITA interfering in things of absolutely no concern of yours. What a jerk you are. What business is what anybody does with their body any of yours?
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He can say he's not opposing it for religious reasons, but it seems painfully clear that holier-than-thou puritanism is still very much alive and well in the good ole US of A, and always has been. The obsession that so many people have with other people's private lives and what they do in their bedrooms is still off the charts. As H.L. Mencken once said, Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be happy.

Contrary to conservative claims, transgenders are hurting no one - it's the puritanical conservatives themselves who keep getting caught molesting kids and cheating on their spouses or engaging in "forbidden" sexual behaviors that they condemn in others, like Jerry Falwell, Jr. watching his wife getting it on with other guys, or the Moms for Liberty school board member in Florida who kept trying to ban LGBTQ books from school libraries while she was privately having threesomes with her husband and another woman they were paying for the service (and who accused her husband of abusing her). I'll guarantee you that if these people knew that a transgender person lived in their neighborhood it would drive them crazy and they would likely lose sleep at night, solely because that person existed and was in their neighborhood, not because it really affected their life in any way. And they'd likely do everything they could to make that person miserable and force them to move, all under pious claims that they were just trying to "protect" the children in their neighborhood or something similar.
 
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ZenMode said:
I said public rise, meaning it's more prominent in public.

ok?

I have no idea why you keep trying to bring religion into this. My position has nothing to do with morality, nor do I believe gender dysphoria is any more immoral than bipolar disorder. My position is based in science, which is why I'm not arguing against trans men in male sports.

If you believe fairness in athletics it is necessary.

So, there are biological differences between males and females that give males a clear advantage.

This is how you rationalize your position based on empathy rather than reason.
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It has more validity that trying to combine science and fairness. Fairness is not part of any science.
 
finesse said:
It has more validity that trying to combine science and fairness.
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Nope and it's not even close.
finesse said:
Fairness is not part of any science.
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Biology and physics, as it relates to athletics, is most definitely a part of fairness. It's why they have weight classes in wrestling and boxing. It's why they don't allow 8-year-olds to compete against 20-year-olds and it's why men aren't permitted to compete in women's sports.

Or, it's why men used to not be permitted to compete in women's sports.
 
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ZenMode said:
@finesse You asked yesterday why I somewhat agreed with Elon about empathy being a weakness in the US.
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It's not a weakness. Empathy is literally the emotion on which all of civilization is built. Civilization was not built, and never could be built, by a bunch of atomized individuals. It was built out of shared identity, which is a function of empathy. Once civilization got going, there were plenty of developments like slavery -- but still, empathy is the basis of a community or even a nation.

Your views are loathsome and disgusting. Empathy is the most powerful emotion. It is not a weakness at all; it takes great strength. And our best presidents have typically been motivated by empathy (see, e.g., Lincoln, FDR, Obama), an dour worst presidents the ones who preached individualism or mindless tribalism (Hoover, Coolidge, Nixon, Trump). This isn't a close call.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Because it has won elections and will continue to.
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Can't argue that it helped in this election. But we've seen a pattern for 30 years that I expect to continue:

A. Democrats govern well and improve the country.
B. Conservatives take for granted how well the government is working, and instead focus on wedge issues like gay marriage, trans, race, etc.
C. GOP wins elections, and promptly runs the country into the ground.
D. Dems save the day

I have a feeling this cycle will be broken because Trump is wrecking everything to such an extent that the GOP will be forever tainted. I expect the Dems to win every federal election for the next decade, barring unforeseen circumstances (which there always are, but those can cut both ways).
 
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