GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

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What a policy is supposed to accomplish shouldn't be about feelings
To the contrary, policy is all about feelings. What is the purpose of policy? It's to promote the common good, to use a simplistic term. The common good is usually defined in terms of happiness, at least in part, and happiness is a feeling. You literally cannot understand the ends of policy without empathy. Otherwise you just create a weird sterile robot society.
 
To the contrary, policy is all about feelings. What is the purpose of policy? It's to promote the common good, to use a simplistic term. The common good is usually defined in terms of happiness, at least in part, and happiness is a feeling. You literally cannot understand the ends of policy without empathy. Otherwise you just create a weird sterile robot society.
Policy should be based on what is the right thing to do, not what feels good to do.

In this case, the right thing to do is to keep males out of female sports because they have an unfair competitive advantage.

Again, this, The unfair competitive advantage that males have over females, has been known for a very long time. It's when we start incorporating feelings, AKA empathizing, that we start ignoring what is right and doing what makes us feel good.
 
Remember when Zen first started posting here how he initially tried to present himself as a reasonable and centrist and objective poster? LOL. Those days are definitely gone.
I think you're confusing centrist with leftist. I support everyone's right to live their life however they please. If you want to change your gender every day, go for it. If you're a male with a footlong beard and want to wear a sundress to church, I couldn't care less. If you want to marry somebody that is the same sex as you, go for it. If you want to marry two somebodies, one that is the same sex as you and one that isn't, I'm fine with that.

If being a centrist means that you ignore science, what's actually right and wrong and make decisions based on feelings, but feelings of only one group involved, then I'm not on board.
 
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In this case, the right thing to do is to keep males out of female sports because they have an unfair competitive advantage.
Any room for nuance in your position? For example, are you ok with mixed gender in some sports? Is there a level where you would be OK with mixed gender, for example elementary, junior high or high school? Are you OK with biological females competing on male teams?
 
Any room for nuance in your position? For example, are you ok with mixed gender in some sports? Is there a level where you would be OK with mixed gender, for example elementary, junior high or high school? Are you OK with biological females competing on male teams?
I think girls can play in boy's sports as long as they can. I'm fine with pre-pubescent kids playing together.

I'm not even totally opposed to males playing in female sports with sufficient hormone treatment. I think more research needs to be done on that. My guess is that will be the eventual compromise.
 
I think girls can play in boy's sports as long as they can. I'm fine with pre-pubescent kids playing together.

I'm not even totally opposed to males playing in female sports with sufficient hormone treatment. I think more research needs to be done on that. My guess is that will be the eventual compromise.
But aren’t you opposed to hormone treatment for minors? Or is that someone else?

So prepubescent would be before middle school, right? You don’t want boys in girls sports once they get older than 11?
 
But aren’t you opposed to hormone treatment for minors? Or is that someone else?

So prepubescent would be before middle school, right? You don’t want boys in girls sports once they get older than 11?
I am against it. I was talking more 'in theory' or college.

There's a current age where schools/sports leagues separate kids. That seems to work.
 
I'm not even totally opposed to males playing in female sports with sufficient hormone treatment. I think more research needs to be done on that. My guess is that will be the eventual compromise.
It may shock you to know that this was pretty unproblematically what was done until the culture war right decided that trans people would be their next targets. The Olympics asked trans women to submit blood test results showing that their testosterone levels were at less than 15 ng/dL (well below the top end of normal for cis women, especially athletes) before they were allowed to compete. If every professional league adhered to this standard, trans people and those who support them would not have any problems.
I am against it. I was talking more 'in theory' or college.

There's a current age where schools/sports leagues separate kids. That seems to work.
Based on the fact that we're having this conversation, it very clearly does not work. What do you think the goals of youth sports are? Why do they exist?
 
It may shock you to know that this was pretty unproblematically what was done until the culture war right decided that trans people would be their next targets. The Olympics asked trans women to submit blood test results showing that their testosterone levels were at less than 15 ng/dL (well below the top end of normal for cis women, especially athletes) before they were allowed to compete. If every professional league adhered to this standard, trans people and those who support them would not have any problems.

Based on the fact that we're having this conversation, it very clearly does not work. What do you think the goals of youth sports are? Why do they exist?
To give ephebophiles something to do outside.
 
It may shock you to know that this was pretty unproblematically what was done until the culture war right decided that trans people would be their next targets. The Olympics asked trans women to submit blood test results showing that their testosterone levels were at less than 15 ng/dL (well below the top end of normal for cis women, especially athletes) before they were allowed to compete. If every professional league adhered to this standard, trans people and those who support them would not have any problems.
My primary concern is public schools and universities. Private entities can do as they please and deal with any consequences.
Based on the fact that we're having this conversation, it very clearly does not work.
My kids played sports, either through the city, private businesses or through public schools, as late as 8th grade I believe, and I don't recall having any issue with how boys and girls were/weren't combined.

This conversation is about allowing older males to play in female sports after they would have already been separated in the normal progression
What do you think the goals of youth sports are? Why do they exist?
Depends a lot on where you draw the line for "youth", but there are varying goals depending on age and experience.
 
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My primary concern is public schools and universities. Private entities can do as they please and deal with any consequences.
Why do you draw the line there? If you're worried about the ostensible harm done to female athletes by trans athletes in public schools, why wouldn't that extend to private entities?
 
Why do you draw the line there? If you're worried about the ostensible harm done to female athletes by trans athletes in public schools, why wouldn't that extend to private entities?
I draw the line there because they're private entities. That's really about it. I don't believe they're obligated to prioritize fairness.
 
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I am against it. I was talking more 'in theory' or college.

There's a current age where schools/sports leagues separate kids. That seems to work.
If you don’t start hormone therapy till 18, you would still have a genetic advantage. In any event, it would likely take two years of therapy to reduce testosterone to sufficiently low levels, so you'd really only be talking about two years of competition. That does not seem like a solution that would ever be implemented.
 
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I'm probably pretty left but it's more coincidence than doctrine. It's not something that much concerns me. Give me a shot of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness with a chaser of do unto others on the side and I don't give much of a damn about the political spectrum.
 
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