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GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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Silence Dogood said:
16-year-old Reese Hogan, a star track athlete from Crean Lutheran High School in Irvine, was competing in Division 3 of the California Interscholastic Federation (CIF) Southern Section Finals. She set a personal record during the event and shattered her school’s record in the triple jump at 37 feet, 2 inches during the May 17 meet.

In an honest competition, this would have been enough to place first. Unfortunately, Hogan’s lost to a boy named AB Hernandez from Jurupa Valley High School by a whopping four feet. Hernandez is now expected to compete in the California championships.
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Hernandez came in first or tied for first in three events:

  • Ab Hernandez scored first place in the CIF long jump qualifier with a score of 19'11".
  • Hernandez has qualified for first place in the high jump with a mark of 5'5", but this height was matched by 5 other athletes participating in the event.
  • Hernandez placed first in the triple jump.
CA has changed the rules such that, if a trans female athlete comes in first, they add another cis female (13th spot) to those who advance.

I'd say this misses the point and doesn't address the issue.
 
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@finesse You asked yesterday why I somewhat agreed with Elon about empathy being a weakness in the US. This topic is a good example. Throughout this thread, you see people referencing emotional aspects for trans women athletes. How difficult it is for them and how important it is that they feel accepted and comfortable.

That empathizing is why many on the left can't simply say "It's not fair or right to allow males to compete in female sports".
 
ZenMode said:
Sorry my scientific terminology bothers you....
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You aren't interested in science. The science of both sex and gender is overwhelmingly in support of trans people. You reject science and expertise on this board in virtually every interaction.

You're interested in bad faith arguments and exclusionary rhetoric.

I'm calling you on your bullshit, and saying this bullshit makes you sound weird and creepy.

Happy Pride!
 
ZenMode said:
@finesse You asked yesterday why I somewhat agreed with Elon about empathy being a weakness in the US. This topic is a good example. Throughout this thread, you see people referencing emotional aspects for trans women athletes. How difficult it is for them and how important it is that they feel accepted and comfortable.

That empathizing is why many on the left can't simply say "It's not fair or right to allow males to compete in female sports".
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All I got to say is that this is the epitome of empathy. Work out your disagreement with the guy who said this and we'll talk.


Matthew 7:12 KJV: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Luke 6:31 KJV: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
 
finesse said:
All I got to say is that this is the epitome of empathy. Work out your disagreement with the guy who said this and we'll talk.


Matthew 7:12 KJV: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Luke 6:31 KJV: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
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I couldn't possibly care less what Elon thinks, nor will he ever be aware of, much impacted by, my opininion.

Prior to the public rise in transgenderism, did you ever question the necessity of separating boys and girls, athletically, after a certain age?
 
finesse said:
All I got to say is that this is the epitome of empathy. Work out your disagreement with the guy who said this and we'll talk.


Matthew 7:12 KJV: "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Luke 6:31 KJV: "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
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On a side note, I don't believe in the existence of any gods, including the God of Abraham, so quoting the Bible, if your intention was to influence my opinion, will be as effective as quoting Harry Potter or the Iliad.
 
ZenMode said:
I couldn't possibly care less what Elon thinks, nor will he ever be aware of, much impacted by, my opininion.

Prior to the public rise in transgenderism, did you ever question the necessity of separating boys and girls, athletically, after a certain age?
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Show me statistics of the rise in transgenderism. Replace it with the recognition that it has always existed. Hell, they were frequently sacred in Native American cultures and have existed throughout recorded history.

In many Native American cultures, transgender and non-binary individuals have traditionally held a unique and revered status, often recognized as "Two-Spirit". This term, widely used by Indigenous communities, encompasses diverse gender identities and sexual orientations, recognizing that individuals can embody both masculine and feminine qualities. Two-Spirit individuals often served as spiritual leaders, healers, and ceremonial leaders within their communities.

No, I didn't question the necessity. I had a benighted Christian upbringing like you apparently did. Is it logical? Yes, but not necessary. As I've pointed out before, I have no problem with men's, women's and open events with the real champions being the open winners. Do I think that in the purely physical game that they will mostly be male? Yeah, but so what?

Why don't you save some feeling for the hungry, sick, lame and otherwise afflicted rather than the temporary disappointment of a minor character in a minor athletic contest of almost no real importance IRL?
 
ZenMode said:
On a side note, I don't believe in the existence of any gods, including the God of Abraham, so quoting the Bible, if your intention was to influence my opinion, will be as effective as quoting Harry Potter or the Iliad.
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Then you have fuck all reason to be concerned about it at all. I had allowed for you to have religious delusions but you're just a nosy PITA interfering in things of absolutely no concern of yours. What a jerk you are. What business is what anybody does with their body any of yours?
 
ZenMode said:
Prior to the public rise in transgenderism, did you ever question the necessity of separating boys and girls, athletically, after a certain age?
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Women's sports don't exist as a safety issue. They exist either to shield men's egos from the small number of women who can compete with them athletically, or to foster community among women through a means that we've given more social prestige than the typical ways that women create community (both are things that happen, but it's up for historical debate which happened first).

If we wanted to keep women and girls safe, we'd ban them from sports entirely - do you realize how many athletes are horrifically injured every year?
 
finesse said:
Show me statistics of the rise in transgenderism. Replace it with the recognition that it has always existed. Hell, they were frequently sacred in Native American cultures and have existed throughout recorded history.
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I said public rise, meaning it's more prominent in public.
finesse said:
In many Native American cultures, transgender and non-binary individuals have traditionally held a unique and revered status, often recognized as "Two-Spirit". This term, widely used by Indigenous communities, encompasses diverse gender identities and sexual orientations, recognizing that individuals can embody both masculine and feminine qualities. Two-Spirit individuals often served as spiritual leaders, healers, and ceremonial leaders within their communities.
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ok?
finesse said:
No, I didn't question the necessity. I had a benighted Christian upbringing like you apparently did.
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I have no idea why you keep trying to bring religion into this. My position has nothing to do with morality, nor do I believe gender dysphoria is any more immoral than bipolar disorder. My position is based in science, which is why I'm not arguing against trans men in male sports.
finesse said:
Is it logical? Yes, but not necessary.
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If you believe fairness in athletics it is necessary.
finesse said:
As I've pointed out before, I have no problem with men's, women's and open events with the real champions being the open winners. Do I think that in the purely physical game that they will mostly be male? Yeah, but so what?
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So, there are biological differences between males and females that give males a clear advantage.
finesse said:
Why don't you save some feeling for the hungry, sick, lame and otherwise afflicted rather than the temporary disappointment of a minor character in a minor athletic contest of almost no real importance IRL?
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This is how you rationalize your position based on empathy rather than reason.
 
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finesse said:
Then you have fuck all reason to be concerned about it at all. I had allowed for you to have religious delusions but you're just a nosy PITA interfering in things of absolutely no concern of yours. What a jerk you are. What business is what anybody does with their body any of yours?
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Deflection isn't going to work.
 
akillesheel said:
Women's sports don't exist as a safety issue. They exist either to shield men's egos from the small number of women who can compete with them athletically,
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tenor.gif
akillesheel said:
or to foster community among women through a means that we've given more social prestige than the typical ways that women create community (both are things that happen, but it's up for historical debate which happened first).

If we wanted to keep women and girls safe, we'd ban them from sports entirely - do you realize how many athletes are horrifically injured every year?
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Strawman.
 
finesse said:
Then you have fuck all reason to be concerned about it at all. I had allowed for you to have religious delusions but you're just a nosy PITA interfering in things of absolutely no concern of yours. What a jerk you are. What business is what anybody does with their body any of yours?
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He can say he's not opposing it for religious reasons, but it seems painfully clear that holier-than-thou puritanism is still very much alive and well in the good ole US of A, and always has been. The obsession that so many people have with other people's private lives and what they do in their bedrooms is still off the charts. As H.L. Mencken once said, Puritanism is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be happy.

Contrary to conservative claims, transgenders are hurting no one - it's the puritanical conservatives themselves who keep getting caught molesting kids and cheating on their spouses or engaging in "forbidden" sexual behaviors that they condemn in others, like Jerry Falwell, Jr. watching his wife getting it on with other guys, or the Moms for Liberty school board member in Florida who kept trying to ban LGBTQ books from school libraries while she was privately having threesomes with her husband and another woman they were paying for the service (and who accused her husband of abusing her). I'll guarantee you that if these people knew that a transgender person lived in their neighborhood it would drive them crazy and they would likely lose sleep at night, solely because that person existed and was in their neighborhood, not because it really affected their life in any way. And they'd likely do everything they could to make that person miserable and force them to move, all under pious claims that they were just trying to "protect" the children in their neighborhood or something similar.
 
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