GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

[UNCatTech]

As zoo noted, the problem with your statement is that “the left” hasn’t ever advocated for all non-transitioned individuals to compete in women’s sports.

The right has sufficiently distorted the narrative such that allowing ANY trans person—including those who’ve transitioned—to compete is seen as allowing hulking aliens to win competitions by smashing the poor dainty little ladies.

The left, meanwhile, has steadily said that (a) this is a non-issue on the state and national level, given the tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of trans athletes; and (b) as such, this is an issue better left to individual governing bodies of sports, who can determine rules at a community, regional, state, national, or international level.

I don’t think lefties on the whole are against regulating competition based on testosterone levels or other measures—but it makes a much better emotional argument to pretend (as the right does) that there are black-and-white lines that should never be crossed under any circumstance, and that trans people are disgusting and shouldn’t be allowed to use the bathroom or participate in sports.

This works to the right’s advantage, because most “swing voters” really don’t know what transgenderism is, and are scared by it. So they’re comforted by the right’s black-and-white approach, instead of the gray areas proposed by the left.

Your last statement is the main point, most will not take the time to understand the process, the numbers, or the psychology of being accepted. It's so much bigger that a trophy in a sport.

You know it's also interesting that the "No Participation Trophies" party is solidly behind the woman that tied for fifth place. I thought that second place was first lose in their book??

 

[ZenMode]

Your last statement is the main point, most will not take the time to understand the process, the numbers, or the psychology of being accepted. It's so much bigger that a trophy in a sport.

You know it's also interesting that the "No Participation Trophies" party is solidly behind the woman that tied for fifth place. I thought that second place was first lose in their book??

What about the psychology of coming in 2nd in a race you otherwise would have won or the spot in the starting lineup that would have been your spot if not for the male who took your place? How about the psychology of losing a state championship two years in a row because you're a girl being forced to wrestle against a guy?

 

[MOUNTAINH33L]

It's a nonissue. It's a wedge topic that the right uses to get the base all lathered up in outrage. It's almost as important as what's going on at Skinwalker Ranch if you ask me.

 

[finesse]

What about the psychology of coming in 2nd in a race you otherwise would have won or the spot in the starting lineup that would have been your spot if not for the male who took your place? How about the psychology of losing a state championship two years in a row because you're a girl being forced to wrestle against a guy?

By the standards you apply, you are consciously telling an outright lie in the last sentence. The person was born a girl and wants to be wrestling guys. Pick a side and stick to it. It's your laws and the principles you claim to espouse doing the damage in the last case.

 

[ZenMode]

By the standards you apply, you are consciously telling an outright lie in the last sentence. The person was born a girl and wants to be wrestling guys. Pick a side and stick to it. It's your laws and the principles you claim to espouse doing the damage in the last case.

My point is unchanged even if the example was bad.

There's no concern for the psychology of the actual females.

 

[finesse]

My point is unchanged even if the example was bad.

There's no concern for the psychology of the actual females.

On your side. Own it.

 

[ZenMode]

On your side. Own it.

Nope. Your side. Even Democrats disagree with allowing males to compete in female sports. Life isn't always fair, but intentionally creating more unfairness isn't the solution.

 

[wmheel1287]

My point is unchanged even if the example was bad.

There's no concern for the psychology of the actual females.

How do you square your concern for the psychology of this group with your apathy about the psychology of other groups? What makes this injustice so much more important to you? It is clearly more important to you and those you politically align yourself with than other wrongs in our society. Why is that?

By the way, I don't disagree that I have problems with those born as male participating at high levels in women's athletics, but I also don't pretend to know everything and I certainly don't flaunt "science" as the basis for my opinion in that regard.

 

[ZenMode]

How do you square your concern for the psychology of this group with your apathy about the psychology of other groups? What makes this injustice so much more important to you? It is clearly more important to you and those you politically align yourself with than other wrongs in our society. Why is that?

By the way, I don't disagree that I have problems with those born as male participating at high levels in women's athletics, but I also don't pretend to know everything and I certainly don't flaunt "science" as the basis for my opinion in that regard.

Like I mentioned above, life isn't always fair, but compounding the issue by adding more unfairness isn't the solution.

The science I'm referring to isn't complex. It's the basic biological differences between males and females as it relates to, among other things, upper and lower body muscles mass, where males, without stepping foot in the gym, have a clear advantage.

 

[ChileG]

Each governing body should set their own rules, and politicians are making this an issue as a distraction.
And of course the democrats trip all over themselves addressing the matter.
This is a complex matter, but the democrats messaging should be simple (imo).

 

[UNCMSinLS]

Fifth.

In the NCAA’s.

Not the Olympic Trials or the Olympics.

Don’t get me wrong…..anyone who makes the Finals at the NCAA’s is an outstanding swimmer…..outstanding, but maybe not world class.

The MAGA credo: Never let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[finesse]

How do you square your concern for the psychology of this group with your apathy about the psychology of other groups? What makes this injustice so much more important to you? It is clearly more important to you and those you politically align yourself with than other wrongs in our society. Why is that?

By the way, I don't disagree that I have problems with those born as male participating at high levels in women's athletics, but I also don't pretend to know everything and I certainly don't flaunt "science" as the basis for my opinion in that regard.

I have problems as well. My anticipation is that, in the long run , either there won't be a lot of satisfaction to winning if it's clear that there is a big advantage or that contests will become men, women and open categories with winning the open events holding the real prestige. It's a mental game, so not exactly the same although the attitudes were similar about who could do what, but that's what happened in bridge 20 or 30 years ago.

 

[wmheel1287]

Like I mentioned above, life isn't always fair, but compounding the issue by adding more unfairness isn't the solution.

The science I'm referring to isn't complex. It's the basic biological differences between males and females as it relates to, among other things, upper and lower body muscles mass, where males, without stepping foot in the gym, have a clear advantage.

So I suppose then that you support the elimination of Title IX altogether? It is very demonstrable that Title IX has eliminated exponentially more collegiate opportunities for young men than the transgender issue will over the next 100 years or so.

For the record, I do NOT support the removal of Title IX because I think the issue is complex and I think the creation of those opportunities for females was and is overall worth the tradeoff of that elimination for some males.

 

[ZenMode]

So I suppose then that you support the elimination of Title IX altogether? It is very demonstrable that Title IX has eliminated exponentially more collegiate opportunities for young men than the transgender issue will over the next 100 years or so.

For the record, I do NOT support the removal of Title IX because I think the issue is complex and I think the creation of those opportunities for females was and is overall worth the tradeoff of that elimination for some males.

Without getting into details and derailing the thread, I'm not a huge fan of Title IX, but I get, to a point, why it's good that it exists.

 

[ChileG]

The MAGA credo: Never let facts get in the way of a good story.

I’ll say it again…Riley Gaines owes everything to tying for fifth in that race. Where would she be without it?

 

[wmheel1287]

I’ll say it again…Riley Gaines owes everything to tying for fifth in that race. Where would she be without it?

Amen to that. The instant lottery in today's society is to be aggrieved in the eyes of the MAGA crowd. Trump continues to demonstrate it daily.

 

[wmheel1287]

Without getting into details and derailing the thread, I'm not a huge fan of Title IX, but I get, to a point, why it's good that it exists.

We wouldn't be having the discussion about taking opportunities from women AT ALL if Title IX didn't exist. Those opportunities would have never come into existence. Young girls grow up playing sports now because of Title IX.

 

[4thgenheel]

Because they don't understand the love component, they become fixated on the sexual aspect.

Just look at the arguments they make about how the body "isn't designed" for certain kinds of intimacy.

Yet, I doubt they object when their own partner is open to exploring those same experiences.

If they could simply accept that love transcends the arbitrary limits they impose, they might become more open-minded and compassionate.

i genuinely feel sorry for people like this. sex is about so much more than penetration.

 

[ZenMode]

We wouldn't be having the discussion about taking opportunities from women AT ALL if Title IX didn't exist. Those opportunities would have never come into existence. Young girls grow up playing sports now because of Title IX.

My wife and I involved our kids in youth sports knowing there was a 90+% chance they wouldn't ever play beyond high school but, again, I understand, especially in public universities, that there should be a requirement to offer girls sports. I don't think there should be a 1:1 requirement, but anything less would likely be viewed as discriminatory, so it is what it is.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

The argument from Democrats is often "Well, it's only a very small number of athletes." This is true, but it doesn't make the situation any less unfair for the female athletes. Every biological male that makes a starting lineup is pushing a female to the bench. Every male that finishes first, second, third, etc is keeping a female from finishing in one of those spots. Every male that goes to the state finals or a postseason tournament is taking the spot of what should have been a female in that position.

Even in low numbers, it is simply not fair. People recognize that and push back against it, rightfully so.

There's a reason that males and females are separated into different sports after a certain age.

Follow the science, right?

Should we regularly test for steroid use among all athletes? I mean, if your’re concerned about a perceived unfair advantage that boys have over girls because of size and strength, shouldn’t you be concerned that some people within a sex are cheating? Maybe we should have tiers of sports based on physical size the same way we do for HS based on enrollment.

Hurray! Our team made the class A, average height, bantamweight football playoffs!