Harris Vegas rally

CarolinaFever said:
Couldn't one argue tips are a gift?
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You can argue anything. But they are expressly for service provided - even if not mandatory.

I can’t think of any reasonable argument for why a tipped employee should pay less taxes than a minimum wage hourly employee — especially when tipped employees usually make way more than minimum wage workers.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I can't think of any valid reason to not tax tips. It's income. Income should be taxed. All income should be taxed. No shelters, no special treatment. I don't understand why we would do otherwise.

Why should someone making $1000 a week in tips (which isn't difficult at many restaurants) pay zero federal taxes?
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Someone boo this poster for me. I'm too busy changing all of my $2000 fees to $500 fees with strongly suggested $1500 gratuity.
 
Scientific Mapp said:
Someone boo this poster for me. I'm too busy changing all of my $2000 fees to $500 fees with strongly suggested $1500 gratuity.
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LOL, correct. I'll just charge $65 for classes with a $400 suggested gratuity instead of my current $465. I'll also provide the course materials gratuitously to those who pay the gratuity.

I'm also completely fine with tips being untaxed when and if we adopt the European model that tips are not and cannot be taken into consideration by an employer in their pay schedules AND there is no tipping on credit cards...only in cash. Then tips would truly be gratuities and not simply a transfer of wages as they are in the US.
 
Its dumb-but I get it she took the air out of trumps bs Now I would suggest there is a limit not taxed . If you work at a great restaurant surely you can make well over $50,000
 
mpaer said:
Its dumb-but I get it she took the air out of trumps bs Now I would suggest there is a limit not taxed . If you work at a great restaurant surely you can make well over $50,000
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At "great" restaurants, many of the servers make $100K. That's why they never leave. The bartenders make staggering amounts at truly great restaurants. Even servers at midrange restaurants make $50K if they are any good. Think of it this way...if you're working at a Ruth's Chris, you probably have 4-6 tables and turn them on average twice a night. Say 8 covers. The average check is probably $300. At 20%, that's $60 per table. That's $480 nightly and it doesn't even cover the truly crazy tippers who will leave a couple hundred bucks. Those folks make damned good money when they are good at it.
 
wmheel1287 said:
At "great" restaurants, many of the servers make $100K. That's why they never leave. The bartenders make staggering amounts at truly great restaurants. Even servers at midrange restaurants make $50K if they are any good. Think of it this way...if you're working at a Ruth's Chris, you probably have 4-6 tables and turn them on average twice a night. Say 8 covers. The average check is probably $300. At 20%, that's $60 per table. That's $480 nightly and it doesn't even cover the truly crazy tippers who will leave a couple hundred bucks. Those folks make damned good money when they are good at it.
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I have a young friend who waits at the best restaraunt in Charleston Wva . I don't know what he makes but the owners are opening a new place-want him to run it-and he figures he will take a pay cut And yea its Charleston............
 
I know someone who bartends/serves at a middling "English Pub" sports bar in Charlotte. They typically make over $1000 on a football weekend between Saturday/Sunday morning EPL games, plus college and NFL football. Add Monday Night football, all the tournament soccer from this summer that packed the house, crowds for March Madness and other assorted sports on TV and they make a nice living working 4 days per week.
 
farce said:
I know someone who bartends/serves at a middling "English Pub" sports bar in Charlotte. They typically make over $1000 on a football weekend between Saturday/Sunday morning EPL games, plus college and NFL football. Add Monday Night football, all the tournament soccer from this summer that packed the house, crowds for March Madness and other assorted sports on TV and they make a nice living working 4 days per week.
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Big Ben?
 
wmheel1287 said:
At "great" restaurants, many of the servers make $100K. That's why they never leave. The bartenders make staggering amounts at truly great restaurants. Even servers at midrange restaurants make $50K if they are any good. Think of it this way...if you're working at a Ruth's Chris, you probably have 4-6 tables and turn them on average twice a night. Say 8 covers. The average check is probably $300. At 20%, that's $60 per table. That's $480 nightly and it doesn't even cover the truly crazy tippers who will leave a couple hundred bucks. Those folks make damned good money when they are good at it.
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I’m not arguing….but, out of that $480, they likely tip out 10% to the bartender(s), 10% to the buses, something (5%?) to the kitchen, something to the host…..if the restaurant has a sommelier, that person is getting a cut of wine sales (of course, if the sommelier is good, the customers are SPENDING on wine).

They also likely do a lot more than 8 covers a night.

The tax code requires waits/bartenders to report 8% of sales as tip income. They’re also expected to report all of credit card tips minus the tip-outs to other staff.
 
Zoo_View said:
I’m not arguing….but, out of that $480, they likely tip out 10% to the bartender(s), 10% to the buses, something (5%?) to the kitchen, something to the host…..if the restaurant has a sommelier, that person is getting a cut of wine sales (of course, if the sommelier is good, the customers are SPENDING on wine).

They also likely do a lot more than 8 covers a night.

The tax code requires waits/bartenders to report 8% of sales as tip income. They’re also expected to report all of credit card tips minus the tip-outs to other staff.
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You're not wrong on the tip out stuff. I was trying to be conservative on the covers. We ate in the Wild Turkey Lounge at the Angus Barn last night. I didn't drink. Drew had 2 glasses of wine and we had one appetizer and 2 entrees. It was $165. We were there for slightly more than an hour and her tip was $40. She was also working 3 more 2 tops near us and an 8 top. I'd guess she easily made $800 last night...and $600 after tipping out.

I definitely do not begrudge her that. I wouldn't have that job. But I also don't think a 25 year old pulling $600 a night in tips should pay no income tax. That's lunacy to me.
 
wmheel1287 said:
You're not wrong on the tip out stuff. I was trying to be conservative on the covers. We ate in the Wild Turkey Lounge at the Angus Barn last night. I didn't drink. Drew had 2 glasses of wine and we had one appetizer and 2 entrees. It was $165. We were there for slightly more than an hour and her tip was $40. She was also working 3 more 2 tops near us and an 8 top. I'd guess she easily made $800 last night...and $600 after tipping out.

I definitely do not begrudge her that. I wouldn't have that job. But I also don't think a 25 year old pulling $600 a night in tips should pay no income tax. That's lunacy to me.
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I don't disagree with you in theory, but I would think that the majority of tipped workers don't earn enough to pay taxes on tips anyway- don't they make something ridiculous like $2.13 an hour or something?- so I feel like the Harris proposal is kind of a moot point (not to mention, some good old-fashioned election year political pandering in a swing state that has an inordinate number of tipped workers). And at least, IMO, Harris is proposing it differently than Trump: Trump's "no tax on tips" proposal is a poorly-veiled attempt to give hedge fund billionaires even more tax breaks, whereas Harris's proposal pertains strictly to workers in the hospitality and service industries. All Trump's proposal would accomplish is to increase the ability of hedge fund managers, private equity managers, and other ultra-wealthy people to change their compensation to "mostly tips" from profit sharing- in other words, more tax code abuse by and for the ultra-wealthy at the expense of the working class.

That said, I don't really understand the Harris proposal's purpose (aside from, again, election year pandering): if what you're really aiming for is that you want to lower taxes on lower earners, why not lower taxes on *all* lower earners? Ultimately, it's moot because it's merely a rhetorical device that has little to no chance of ever passing a divided Congress anyway.

My wife and I spent a week and a half in Italy back in the spring and it was really neat eating at restaurants where the staff was paid living/thriving wages, where tips were not only not expected but generally not wanted, and where the final bill that you got at the end of the meal...was the actual final bill, etc.
 
CFordUNC said:
I don't disagree with you in theory, but I would think that the majority of tipped workers don't earn enough to pay taxes on tips anyway- don't they make something ridiculous like $2.13 an hour or something?- so I feel like the Harris proposal is kind of a moot point (not to mention, some good old-fashioned election year political pandering in a swing state that has an inordinate number of tipped workers). And at least, IMO, Harris is proposing it differently than Trump: Trump's "no tax on tips" proposal is a poorly-veiled attempt to give hedge fund billionaires even more tax breaks, whereas Harris's proposal pertains strictly to workers in the hospitality and service industries. All Trump's proposal would accomplish is to increase the ability of hedge fund managers, private equity managers, and other ultra-wealthy people to change their compensation to "mostly tips" from profit sharing- in other words, more tax code abuse by and for the ultra-wealthy at the expense of the working class.

That said, I don't really understand the Harris proposal's purpose (aside from, again, election year pandering): if what you're really aiming for is that you want to lower taxes on lower earners, why not lower taxes on *all* lower earners? Ultimately, it's moot because it's merely a rhetorical device that has little to no chance of ever passing a divided Congress anyway.

My wife and I spent a week and a half in Italy back in the spring and it was really neat eating at restaurants where the staff was paid living/thriving wages, where tips were not only not expected but generally not wanted, and where the final bill that you got at the end of the meal...was the actual final bill, etc.
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You wouldn’t pay much in federal income tax, but the 10% rate kicks in after $13k-ish standard deduction, so you would pay some.

But you also pay FICA. I can’t imagine any logic that would allow you to avoid income tax but not FICA. So Kamala would effectively be saving waiters 20% of their income after 13k and 7.5% off the first 13k

Of course, this isn’t a logical proposal by Trump or Kamala. And it has no shot of being made into law. So it is all just silly talk.
 
I do like Sir Ed's but I'm not a fan of their ostrich meatloaf. I know they add some fat but it's just not very good. But I can scarf down those zucchini chips while drinking beer at the bar. For some reason the zucchini chips are better than fried zucchini spears.
 
In re Sir Edmund Haley's: A dozen or so years ago, it closed. It later reopened, but on the day it closed, I wanted to be there. Unfortunately, for me, the "being there" part meant after work. By the time I got there and got up to the bar, all that was left in the entire house that was alcoholic were some cans of PBR. Somewhat of a sacrilege, but I (prematurely) toasted the closing of Sir Edmund Haley's with a can of PBR.
 
I'm just trying to figure out where all the "why should student loans get paid off? I paid my student loans!!" people are when Trump is proposing to give targeted tax breaks to certain people for no reason. Where are the "why should servers pay no taxes? I work in a factory and pay taxes!" folks?
 
05C40 said:
In re Sir Edmund Haley's: A dozen or so years ago, it closed. It later reopened, but on the day it closed, I wanted to be there. Unfortunately, for me, the "being there" part meant after work. By the time I got there and got up to the bar, all that was left in the entire house that was alcoholic were some cans of PBR. Somewhat of a sacrilege, but I (prematurely) toasted the closing of Sir Edmund Haley's with a can of PBR.
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I was there as well that evening. July 21, 2010. Based on the photos in my phone from that evening, I was there between 6:00 and 9:00 PM. So there’s a good chance we were both there at the same time.

Anyway, sorry to derail.
 
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