Hot Stove: UNC Basketball

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Lets be clear the language "Revenue Sharing" is horse puckies.
So the schools paid the coaches a ton-the facilities race was insane. The cry was to share the money with players-Fine
So NCAA says -Okay we will share the revenue with palyers . LIE
The NIL $ is not traditional Revenue-it is all bascially new Donor money
The coaching Pay is not being decreased (at UNC it has gone way up) . Facilities races are still burning (UNC is gonna build 6-7-8oo million dollar new basketball arena )
Players are getting paid with NEW Donor money-not any kind of sharing traditional revenue.
I am okay with it-I am not okay the lies about "sharing revenue" as the message
 
Bigs23 said:
Nah, you’re entitled and overly negative. You didn’t like Roy either.
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You're overly positive and refuse to see how things truly are. I didn’t like Roy's defense of overhelping off the ball and leaving three point shooters open, but I love Roy. All I was pointing out is that Carolina is projected to be better than past season, but still a fringe top 25 team. Those projections might be wrong, and I hope they are because I am a fan and want to see the team succeed, but those are the projections.
 
Carolina Fever said:
You're overly positive and refuse to see how things truly are. I didn’t like Roy's defense of overhelping off the ball and leaving three point shooters open, but I love Roy. All I was pointing out is that Carolina is projected to be better than past season, but still a fringe top 25 team. Those projections might be wrong, and I hope they are because I am a fan and want to see the team succeed, but those are the projections.
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You’re using one guys projection to push your narrative.

You never professed your love for Roy while he was the coach.

You’re expectations are unrealistic and your belief that you know more than the coaches is ridiculous.
 
Bigs23 said:
You’re using one guys projection to push your narrative.

You never professed your love for Roy while he was the coach.

You’re expectations are unrealistic and your belief that you know more than the coaches is ridiculous.
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We'll just have to wait and see how the next season turns out. Hopefully, it will be better than last season and Carolina basketball can get back to being a consistent threat for titles again.
 
donbosco said:
That really wipes out a good deal of our entire so-called brand as The University of North Carolina.
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The Carolina Basketball brand should (and has) give/n us the resources to compete at the top of CBB even in this environment and our brand should be (and is) an advantage that helps separate us from similar NIL offers.
 
donbosco said:
That really wipes out a good deal of our entire so-called brand as The University of North Carolina.
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Yes. This is why I say college basketball is done. The Duke-UNC rivalry was ended when Caleb made his shot in the Final Four.

What we have now is some sort of professional system in which budgets, not schools or programs, are going to be the main driver of success. Which means it's going to be a huge game of chance. Oregon is good because they happen to have Phil Knight as an alum (I think -- Nike's been in Oregon forever, though). Arkansas has money because of Wal-Mart. South Carolina has . . . well.

Now, it would be interesting to see if schools can lean on their extremely rich alums in the NFL and NBA. This will of course favor Duke, though it's also true that guys like Tatum might not have much emotional connection to the school. But we've got some guys making bank, and they should be loyal to the program they spent so many years with. Cam Johnson was in Chapel Hill for three years, right? Coby played only one season but IIRC he was a lifelong Tar Heel fan. One would certainly hope Danny Green and Wayne Ellington are writing checks.

Who does UNC have making bank in the NFL? Well, Mitch probably should be willing to donate; I don't know what his salary is now, but he's made a lot of money. One supposes Drake will kick in. I don't follow football to really know who is in the league these days. Omari will have bank but probably not yet.
 
SnoopRob said:
The Carolina Basketball brand should (and has) give/n us the resources to compete at the top of CBB even in this environment and our brand should be (and is) an advantage that helps separate us from similar NIL offers.
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We don't really know that. This sounds like the old yarn about how the Knicks can attract the best free agents because the Big Apple. It didn't work that way.

It's especially uncertain because of the one-year nature of player tenure. UNC's strength has been the program -- you can play here for a couple of years, develop, build a relationship with the team and the program, etc. But in an age when the roster turns over each year, who cares about any of that stuff?
 
superrific said:
We don't really know that. This sounds like the old yarn about how the Knicks can attract the best free agents because the Big Apple. It didn't work that way.

It's especially uncertain because of the one-year nature of player tenure. UNC's strength has been the program -- you can play here for a couple of years, develop, build a relationship with the team and the program, etc. But in an age when the roster turns over each year, who cares about any of that stuff?
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Compared to most NBA teams, the Knicks have long been able to much more easily attract top talent. The Knicks problem was always their ownership & front office. You made a much better comparison there than you intended to, but I recognize the obvious conclusion makes you uncomfortable.

The roster doesn’t have to turn over completely every year and it will be an advantage to teams who maintain as much roster continuity as possible in the portal era. That should be an advantage to programs like Carolina and, if it’s not, then that’s a symptom of us not building on our strengths well.
 
superrific said:
Yes. This is why I say college basketball is done. The Duke-UNC rivalry was ended when Caleb made his shot in the Final Four.

What we have now is some sort of professional system in which budgets, not schools or programs, are going to be the main driver of success. Which means it's going to be a huge game of chance. Oregon is good because they happen to have Phil Knight as an alum (I think -- Nike's been in Oregon forever, though). Arkansas has money because of Wal-Mart. South Carolina has . . . well.

Now, it would be interesting to see if schools can lean on their extremely rich alums in the NFL and NBA. This will of course favor Duke, though it's also true that guys like Tatum might not have much emotional connection to the school. But we've got some guys making bank, and they should be loyal to the program they spent so many years with. Cam Johnson was in Chapel Hill for three years, right? Coby played only one season but IIRC he was a lifelong Tar Heel fan. One would certainly hope Danny Green and Wayne Ellington are writing checks.

Who does UNC have making bank in the NFL? Well, Mitch probably should be willing to donate; I don't know what his salary is now, but he's made a lot of money. One supposes Drake will kick in. I don't follow football to really know who is in the league these days. Omari will have bank but probably not yet.
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Giving by former players isn’t what will build the NIL coffers of most schools. For most players, their earning windows are fairly short and they’re having to budget money for far too many things for most to give significant funds to NIL. Heck, a lot of athletes already end up in financial trouble within a few years of the end of their playing careers, as it is. They simply don’t have the resources to realistically write a million dollar check every year for the next few decades.

NIL coffers are built on the giving of wealthier grads/donors who care about sports success and aren’t limited in their earning careers by no longer being a pro athlete after 10 or 15 or even 20 years. Duke’s NIL group is believed to be largely middle age and older grads who have made significant wealth in their careers - and continue to make significant money year over year - who view Duke basketball as a passion project/hobby that they put their money into. Unless you have a singular Phil Knight or T. Boone Pickens, that the folks you need to really drive NIL dollars.
 
SnoopRob said:
Compared to most NBA teams, the Knicks have long been able to much more easily attract top talent. The Knicks problem was always their ownership & front office. You made a much better comparison there than you intended to, but I recognize the obvious conclusion makes you uncomfortable.

The roster doesn’t have to turn over completely every year and it will be an advantage to teams who maintain as much roster continuity as possible in the portal era. That should be an advantage to programs like Carolina and, if it’s not, then that’s a symptom of us not building on our strengths well.
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Why would the obvious conclusion make me uncomfortable?

When was the last time the Knicks signed a big free agent? They thought they could get someone in 2010 -- the big names went to Miami or resigned. In 2015, they swung for big free agents and ended up with Robin Lopez. Durant didn't even give them a meeting when he was on the market.

www.sportingnews.com

The history of the New York Knicks' free agent signings | Sporting News Canada

Will the Knicks land a big free agent this summer?
www.sportingnews.com www.sportingnews.com

Google tells me that, aside from Brunson, their biggest free agent signing in the past decade was Hartenstein. They thought they could get Durant in 2015 but he
 
SnoopRob said:
Giving by former players isn’t what will build the NIL coffers of most schools. For most players, their earning windows are fairly short and they’re having to budget money for far too many things for most to give significant funds to NIL. Heck, a lot of athletes already end up in financial trouble within a few years of the end of their playing careers, as it is. They simply don’t have the resources to realistically write a million dollar check every year for the next few decades.

NIL coffers are built on the giving of wealthier grads/donors who care about sports success and aren’t limited in their earning careers by no longer being a pro athlete after 10 or 15 or even 20 years. Duke’s NIL group is believed to be largely middle age and older grads who have made significant wealth in their careers - and continue to make significant money year over year - who view Duke basketball as a passion project/hobby that they put their money into. Unless you have a singular Phil Knight or T. Boone Pickens, that the folks you need to really drive NIL dollars.
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Who said a million dollar check? But anyway, look at the fucking salaries in the NBA today. I think the average salary was 12 million this past year. Add endorsement money and there's plenty of spare change to throw around. Not to mention, a guy like Danny Green could get a TV job any time he wants.

You're right about most schools, but I was talking about UNC and some blue bloods like KU or UK who don't have obvious billionaire support.
 
superrific said:
We don't really know that. This sounds like the old yarn about how the Knicks can attract the best free agents because the Big Apple. It didn't work that way.

It's especially uncertain because of the one-year nature of player tenure. UNC's strength has been the program -- you can play here for a couple of years, develop, build a relationship with the team and the program, etc. But in an age when the roster turns over each year, who cares about any of that stuff?
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1. The system will likely change.
2. Traditional powers have deeper fan bases, which equals more money
3. Even in professional sports, with salary caps, certain teams outperform traditionally: the Celtics, Lakers, Yankees, Dodgers, Steelers, Broncos, Ravens, etc. Brand means something.
 
Carolina Fever said:
We'll just have to wait and see how the next season turns out. Hopefully, it will be better than last season and Carolina basketball can get back to being a consistent threat for titles again.
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Exactly, preseason poles are just to stir conversation. You should do a study of preseason vs final poles over the past few decades to see how good a predictor they are.
 
SnoopRob said:
The Carolina Basketball brand should (and has) give/n us the resources to compete at the top of CBB even in this environment and our brand should be (and is) an advantage that helps separate us from similar NIL offers.
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You can scan the portal and freshman and understand where they are going and mostly why. I believe going forward is more about money than any other variable.
 
Calheel said:
1. The system will likely change.
2. Traditional powers have deeper fan bases, which equals more money
3. Even in professional sports, with salary caps, certain teams outperform traditionally: the Celtics, Lakers, Yankees, Dodgers, Steelers, Broncos, Ravens, etc. Brand means something.
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Do they outperform when signing free agents, or are they just smarter?

The one team with an advantage appears to be the Lakers, because media industry. I've not seen any real evidence that home market plays much of a role in those leagues. One supposes that it rules some places out -- it's been forever since Indiana signed a top free agent -- but for the most part, I think money mostly rules.

The system will likely change, I agree, but at the moment, I don't see UNC having a significant competitive edge due to historical success. Imagine being a 17 year old kid. Alabama offers you $2M. UNC offers $1.8 million but you get to play on court where Antawn Jamison, Tyler Hansbrough and Vince Carter once plied their trades. I'd imagine the response would be "who's that -- I'll take the money."
 
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