The 56% free throw percentage does not augur well for growth.
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I responded. Maybe you missed it. I explained that I did not think anyone had literally told EC to hit the road, but that we had made clear that he would not be a priority.
stankeylegjones
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Ben came back and stated in that same thread, several times, that it was not about money. To be precise, without violating the "copy/paste" agreement, that the two sides were never going to come to terms on money because an EC/Seth backcourt was not a viable option to HD and HD wants Seth back; i.e., HD would never agree to anything less than below what EC wanted/should be paid, if EC wanted to stay. Hence, HD/staff basically told EC he was not wanted anymore.
Centerpiece
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No, not that. I mean the clock is ticking in terms of 1) being successful in the portal again (bringing in some dawgs like Manek, Ingram and Ryan. Except of course in the way of a PG and a starting big, and if Drake goes, a good sized 3, among other needs), and 2) translate that into a top 3 finish in conference and at least a Sweet 16 appearance in the NCAAT.
If he fails at either one of those goals, or God forbid both, I’m afraid the ticking clock will run out of time on him, even though he got an extension.
If we fail in the portal (especially with a GM and flush with NIL to throw around) AND have another mediocre bubble season, that alarm clock will go off loud enough to wake the dead. Time will be up for Coach Davis.
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Odd statement after a full season.
Centerpiece
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And see, this is where I have a huge problem with HD. Now, I’ll start by saying I’ve been on the Coach Davis bandwagon from the get go, and would always defend him at every step. I continued to be on his side all the way up until I got wind that EC was being shown the door.
My problem is, if you knew you weren’t thrilled with having EC back, why on earth did you continue to give him starts, PT, and suffer through all of his turnovers, fouls and lack of size on the court? Hubert played EC as if he was still grooming him to come back for his junior season, and have all of that experience behind him to build on.
Once the line up situation had finally settled, the best team was RJ at PG, Trimble (or Ian) at 2, Drake at 3 along with JWit and VAL. With EC, Ian (or Seth) and JWash coming off the bench.
JWash lost his starting spot, so he’s transferring. That’s understandable and Hubert probably new it would be best. If Hubert had any idea that EC was also probably leaving (by being shown the door in a round about way) he shouldn’t have coddled him so. Sit EC and give those minutes to Ian, or Seth… who we now learn HD wants back.
Perhaps I’m not making any sense, but Hubert lost me just a tad, if that’s indeed how this all played out with EC.
Mulberry Heel
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We'll know what our team will look like next year soon enough, but the bottom line is, given the players we know are leaving, if we don't do really well in the portal then it is very unlikely that next year will be any better than this year, and in fact we'll probably be even worse. And if that happens then Hubert is gone, period. We'll see how it plays out with the portal, but I've increasingly come to the conclusion that the UNC men's basketball program is at a crossroads, and this situation has been caused by all of the major changes in the sport since 2020 - players can now easily transfer, changes in paying players and increasingly players simply going to the school that pays the most, etc. And so far we seem to have adjusted more slowly and reluctantly than many of our peers.
I may well be wrong, but I get the impression that our program is still stuck in the past to some extent. Players don't go to UNC or dook or UK or KU anymore because of their name recognition or because they dreamed of playing for said school growing up or even for the media exposure. They now go there because they get paid lots of money to do so and because their parents/agent believes that said school will help them get into the pros - it's now a mercenary, pro league business, plain and simple, and we have to adjust, not just in terms of paying players but in the entire mentality of the program. Otherwise it won't matter who we get to coach here.
I may well be wrong, but I get the impression that our program is still stuck in the past to some extent. Players don't go to UNC or dook or UK or KU anymore because of their name recognition or because they dreamed of playing for said school growing up or even for the media exposure. They now go there because they get paid lots of money to do so and because their parents/agent believes that said school will help them get into the pros - it's now a mercenary, pro league business, plain and simple, and we have to adjust, not just in terms of paying players but in the entire mentality of the program. Otherwise it won't matter who we get to coach here.
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Not completely a devil's advocate since I'm not totally neutral but think about our next coach AHD. We all know that the program is in the doldrums. Are we going looking for a coach after he took us to the NCAAs 3 out of 4 years and won a hundred games. (yes, I know the quality of the wins but, to an outsider, the numbers are still the numbers.) Then, the school inaugurates a new system with a GM and after some struggles, it's a blah year. If Hubert is effectively one and done in that scenario, is that a pro or con in who we can get to come? Will the challenge matter more than the what some might consider some high expectations and in a hurry.
Bigs23
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But you do know when (if he actually did) make the decision to move on from EC. He may have been holding out the possibility until the final buzzer.
I’m sure there was some hope that the Heels would go on a decent NCAA run that could have changed the thinking.
There’s also the likelihood that Hubert felt this team was still better with EC getting those minutes but felt like he lowered the ceiling on next season.
SnoopRob
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No one involved in CBB in any real way is ignorant of what the Carolina HC job looks like...it's a tradition-rich, elite-tier job in which high-level results are expected by the administration and the fan base.
(The good news, as it is, is that we're probably a little lower stress than our peer blue bloods like UK, dook, and Kansas.)
I think the biggest issue for Carolina is going to be showing that we're providing financial resources commensurate with our tradition, status, and expectations. Roy, both personally and programmatically, allowed us to do fairly great things relatively inexpensively (again, compared to our blue blood peers) and the University got a bit accustomed to being able to see $100 results on a $50 budget. Given HD's inexperience, he's not been an expensive HC choice and, according to most sources, we've not committed to NIL at a top 10 level.
I think to attract a true top-level coach, we're going to have to make a Belichick-like commitment to basketball. In football, that gives us an opportunity to move up to a higher level of achievement. In basketball, it'll be needed to keep us among the elite.
But if we are able to convincingly make that commitment, I don't think we'll have any issue attacting a top-tier coach. But if we fail to make that financial commitment, then we'll likely fail in attracting a great coach by about the same amount we fail in making that commitment.
I agree about the staeting lineup and rotation. It doesn't make sense for Hubert to show Cadeau the door but still started him all season. It also went way too long before he had Powell and Withers in the starting lineup.
SnoopRob
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My take on EC is based not on any inside knowledge (which I don't really have) but on reading from multiple sources.
I'm not sure that Carolina "showed EC the door" as much as the two sides were pretty significantly apart on how things should be going forward and it ended up being Carolina who said they wouldn't meet EC's expectations. I think that it's likely that up through the end that both sides hoped something could be worked out to keep Cadeau at Carolina in a mutually-agreeable way (even if neither side necessarily expected that to happen) and that it was better for both sides that things continue as they were until the end of the season and final decisions were made.
I probably like EC better than most UNC fans and I'm really sad that we couldn't keep him in Chapel Hill. But I'm not ready to say that we were wrong to let him move on as I don't know what his expectations were and it might have been best to not go too far to meet them. I do think we're going to pay a price for losing him, but without more details it's hard to know if it was the right move or not.
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Not really.
He never had a stable spot in the rotation, and I really don't think he's the type of player to judge based on 4 minute bursts of PT every now and then.
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That's about where I'm at.
I suspect too that they ID'ed some positional or personnel priorities that affected how much they could pay EC, and they just wouldn't compromise.
I loved the kid, and am going to miss him a lot. I think he was primed to blow up this year, and at this point I'm questioning the wisdom of not paying him. But I really don't know much...maybe he wasn't great for overall team chemistry. Maybe they just needed someone not as flashy but more stable at PG, who knows.
I actually think it shows the opposite, he was an 80% FT shooter at Belmont. It shows his shooting woes are mainly mental...and that if he somehow overcomes those mental hurdles he may be a piece for us after all.
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Well they're recruiting other 2 guards and point guards, and IJ could possibly come back, and Seth is still probably staying.
So Seth might find himself not starting anyway, so I have a hard time understanding why EC and 6th man Seth couldn't co-exist. Unless whatever was between them was personal. Which I highly doubt.
He only missed about 10 free throws a year on 80 attempts at Belmont and he missed almost the same number on just 15 attempts at UNC.
And the thing about his misses - on both his free throws and his threes - is that they were often BAD misses. Like not close at all. A good shooter like RJ will sometimes miss a free throw, but it is always close. Tyson just completely lost his touch this year. He really needs a change of scenery for his psyche, if for no other reason.
stankeylegjones
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Snoop, you follow along on IC so I'm assuming you saw where Ben (and others) stated that HD didn't think a backcourt of EC and Seth was a viable option. Not that they couldn't meet his expectations, or money, or EC wanted out (contrary, in fact). Nor did anyone say that HD tried to work anything out. IC was adamant that HD viewed the EC/Seth backcourt as not a viable option and that HD wanted Seth back, and that was the reason EC and HD split. So, while HD most likely did not tell EC to get out directly, his actions all but told him to hit the bricks.
stankeylegjones
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I doubt Seth is going to come back if there's any chance he's not starting next year. I think HD's meeting with EC (at least as reported by IC) points to their intention of starting Seth next year. Yes, they're are talking with 2 guards, we'll have to wait and see how is willing to come to UNC, given the high likelihood that they'd be playing behind Seth...unless for some reason they intend to move Seth to a different position.
IC is pretty clear that IJ is either going pro or hitting the portal.