Hot Stove: UNC Basketball

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cscott said:
No, but a good enough coach should be able to handle both.
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I think they'd probably frame it differently, though. I think they'd want to be competitive at the highest level, and to set team goals every year that include winning a national championship. But I think failure to reach at least some of those goals - which happens most years - takes a back seat to how the players prepare for them, both on the court and off.

I'm pretty sure both Dean and Roy would say that it was relationships and not trophies that were the most significant parts of their jobs. We fans don't get the relationship parts, except vicariously.
 
SnoopRob said:
Saying winning is "the most important goal" sets up a false conundrum where winning must come at the expense of other things.
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It's not a false conundrum at all. There are countless examples of people who want to win so badly they sacrifice all sorts of things in order to achieve it.

BTW, do you mean "false dilemma"? I don't think "false conundrum" is a thing.
 
TarSpiel said:
It's not a false conundrum at all. There are countless examples of people who want to win so badly they sacrifice all sorts of things in order to achieve it.

BTW, do you mean "false dilemma"? I don't think "false conundrum" is a thing.
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It's a false problem unless you think that there are inherent contradictions between winning, moral/ethical leadership, academic success, and off-the-court community impact to the extent that no program can achieve them all. Yes, you can point to many examples where folks prioritize winning, but there are also examples where programs do all of those things at least reasonably well (which is, essentially, The Carolina Way).

As to terms, I started with "false dichotomy" but that (and "false dilemma") implies a false inherent tradeoff between only 2 things while we're discussing 4+ ideals potentially being contradictory to each other. So I settled on "false conundrum". It's not perfect, but I think it gets the point across. But I'm also open to a better term that means tradeoffs between 3 or more ideas/options that may or may not be inherently contradictory. (I fell like @superrific already knows this term and can tell us.)
 
TarSpiel said:
That's probably true, but it brings up an interesting question. Do you think that for the head coach of UNC winning should be the most important goal they have in their job?
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In today’s environment, yes. College basketball is no longer an amateur sport. These are no longer college students playing basketball, they are now basketball players going to college. The players are paid to play basketball, not to be students. The coach is paid $3 million per year to win basketball games, not to raise good citizens. They could find a lot of quality people for a lot less money to be good role models and counsel students on maturing into adults contributing to the betterment of society. The coaches are paid millions to win.
 
finesse said:
From a historical perspective, winning was a result and not the goal. Recall that DES took over a program on probation where virtually everything than win at any cost had a larger priority.
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But had Dean had Herb Sendek's resume would we be the UNC we historically are?

Even if not the primary goal winning is necessary.
 
1. Venture capital is exploring buying partial ownership of college athletic departments.

2. Why do colleges in the united states have major athletic programs in the first place?

3. Should colleges form public-private partnerships for their athletic departments and have the teams be Semi professional?

4. Should colleges spin-off their athletic departments as separate for-profit entities?

5. And what about Naomi?
 
SnoopRob said:
We knew he wasn’t coming back, but to go directly to the portal without trying for the draft first is bad for us. Damn.

I hope he succeeds wherever he ends up next.

Frustrated Headache GIF by Kelly Clarkson
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But did he though? Could he have requested an evaluation from the undergraduate advisory committee? How would an unflattering evaluation have played into his decision?
 
cscott said:
Trimble makes it official.

247sports.com

Seth Trimble Returning to UNC for Senior Season

The three-year UNC guard was third on the team in scoring and second in rebounding.
247sports.com 247sports.com
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Is it possible that only one of Trimble or Jackson would be back next year? They both play the two. Could Jackson have left simply because he didn't want to back up Trimble again?

Has anyone else heard the rumor of Trimble and Jackson not meshing?
 
BillOfRights said:
1. Venture capital is exploring buying partial ownership of college athletic departments.

2. Why do colleges in the united states have major athletic programs in the first place?

3. Should colleges form public-private partnerships for their athletic departments and have the teams be Semi professional?

4. Should colleges spin-off their athletic departments as separate for-profit entities?

5. And what about Naomi?
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1. I believe this is factually accurate.

2. I believe college sports began as student-focused sports that grew into something much larger than originally intended. But the athletic programs served as the "front porch" of the university for both alums and everyday folks, so the schools accepted and encouraged the growth of these programs until they really grew too large for most universities to ever go back to anything like real student-focused sports.

3. We essentially have this now between booster clubs, NIL collectives, and athletic sponsorships. In fact, we're probably closer to true professional athletes at the college level than semi-pro, at this point.

4. I would probably support this unless some major guardrails can be put around college athletics going forward. I don't know that most major universities or even fans would support this.

5. I hope that she's doing ok.
 
BillOfRights said:
But did he though? Could he have requested an evaluation from the undergraduate advisory committee? How would an unflattering evaluation have played into his decision?
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I haven't seen this spelled out, but the timeline suggests that he indeed put his name into the UAC and probably got a less-than-hoped evaluation. And that less-than-hoped evaluation is why he's (seemingly) not continuing with the NBA process.

Jackson going to the draft and entering the NBA gave the appearance that he was moving on to be a pro. And, even if he ended up returning to college and transferring elsewhere, if he'd had a longer NBA process it would have given the appearance that he was at least close to being an NBA player and that perhaps he moved on because Carolina made roster decisions while he was determining his NBA potential.

But by going straight into the portal this quickly, it very much leaves the impression that he isn't really an NBA-level player right now and that his exit isn't because he's not able to come back to Chapel Hill due to issues beyond his control, it very much conveys that he doesn't want to be here any longer.
 
TarSpiel said:
I just have a hard time understanding why Portal PG - Jackson - Powell - Wilson - Veesar wouldn't have been attractive to him. I mean, I sort of think the same about Elliott.
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I just think there's a tendency for these fringe NBA freshman to move around if things don't work out at the first school

Almost always more $ elsewhere and you can scapegoat the first school if you really improve, which freshman tend to do
 
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BillOfRights said:
Is it possible that only one of Trimble or Jackson would be back next year? They both play the two. Could Jackson have left simply because he didn't want to back up Trimble again?

Has anyone else heard the rumor of Trimble and Jackson not meshing?
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They certainly didn't mesh well on the court. I'd be curious how many assists they had to one another

The decision could've also been Cadeau or Trimble. Once EC was gone I'd assume Ian was definitely out

If you're Ian you're not coming back to come off the bench. If you're UNC, you're not paying Ian to come off the bench
 
BillOfRights said:
4. Should colleges spin-off their athletic departments as separate for-profit entities?
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Seems like that had kinda been done a long time ago. Took awhile for players to hatch the idea that they should share in those profits but now the genie's out of the bottle...
 
BillOfRights said:
Is it possible that only one of Trimble or Jackson would be back next year? They both play the two. Could Jackson have left simply because he didn't want to back up Trimble again?

Has anyone else heard the rumor of Trimble and Jackson not meshing?
Click to expand...
I believe Trimble was waiting to see what Jackson would do before making a decision.
 
Rock said:
Was curious about some things so signed up for the ole $1 a month IC promo and boy, that cmitch guy doesn’t post here does he?
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i've had that nutcase and several others on ignore since at least october.

miserable people. i shudder to think what some of their real lives look like based on how they act about something as trivial as college basketball.
 
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