Hurting people you love

I woke up. I went to the gym after dropping my son off. Pyramid on the squats but hit 325 four times with depth and each other set pushed to max. Lunges as planks too.

Took a sick day today. Slept most. Went back to the gym and did five miles. That was really hard because I think the gas tank is empty. Apparently you can’t go days without eating and do all of that.


Had some rotisserie chicken after morning workout and a couple of oranges and a banana just now.

That is my way to deal with things. Not working well right now.
Well at least you're still here. Any update?

BTW, working out is one of the best ways of dealing. It's better than sitting on the sofa with a cigarette shouting Fuck intermittently (h/t Jake Johansen). Or gorging on wings or binge-watching Star Wars.
 
Well at least you're still here. Any update?

BTW, working out is one of the best ways of dealing. It's better than sitting on the sofa with a cigarette shouting Fuck intermittently (h/t Jake Johansen). Or gorging on wings or binge-watching Star Wars.
Fuck is my favorite word, I use it a couple hundred times daily.

Might have used it with the wrong audience this morning.
 
Well at least you're still here. Any update?

BTW, working out is one of the best ways of dealing. It's better than sitting on the sofa with a cigarette shouting Fuck intermittently (h/t Jake Johansen). Or gorging on wings or binge-watching Star Wars.
Nothing good. Most is incomprehensible. As I said she had a very rough family life. Single mother who was an alcoholic and drug user. Would take off for weeks with her having to figure out how to care for her brothers. Finally the mom took off with her two younger brothers when she was 15 and she spent the rest of high school.

I don’t remember what I said here but after I sent her $1000 and she told me that our plans will probably be changing / pushed back, I told her she owed me that info first.

She got into how not even her ex husband knows the story of her growing up and that she shared it with me (I was there but didn’t really know it though my mom did) and I used it against her.

I am baffled because I have never ever used it against her or even mentioned it. She then said she would give me the money back because she doesn’t want me to use it over her.
I told her that was unfair. I told her about two friends who have owed me more than $1000 each for 20 years and never paid it back and I have never once mentioned it to either.

Well she is one of them. I had no idea if she even remembers. But I think she does and that upset her. I was not calling her out. I was trying to defend myself saying I don’t hold money over people and I intentionally did not mention her. In retrospect I should have just mentioned my other friend.

But while I don’t want to embarrass her (and I tried not to) that history does play a role here. Because we talked for years before that. (This was years after we date.). She told me she was mailing the rest of the money but it never fame. Then pretty quickly she dropped off.

It is clear she was embarrassed that her and her husband couldn’t pay me back but it wasn’t about the money to me. It was about losing a friend because I helped her family out.
So when this happened this week it triggered those memories.

I really think that she is viewing everything from her perspective and not putting herself in my shoes. I am not thinking of embarrassing her. I just need to protect myself.

She took it like we talked of being a partnership and my response revealed otherwise. You know, we are a partnership but she is in Denver now. Things are not the same as if we were together: especially when she springs it on me that our plans could be delayed by six months.

I told her by October she may have reconciled with her daughter and now has a new precious grandchild. That may not be her plan, but I know how life works. I know that her family is priority number one and that our plans may never come to fruition.

And I deserved to know that before giving her money for a car.

Here is her last response.

“I am not trying to punish you or anything with a silent treatment. This was more than just a trigger moment. It was an insight on the future and I have my suspicions currently that you are going to make me pay for what others have done to you in the past. I also have this strong feeling that there was truth behind your words, even though you had been drinking. And I am trying to process all of it. It wasn’t hurting my feelings, it hit me to the core how everything changed so quickly. It wasn’t a “misunderstanding”. I understood your tone when it changed while we talked on the phone. And I had already known deep down inside that this is where we were headed, and that is why I was trying to work through it on my own first before talking to you about it.

And it wasn’t just you being a “dick” as you like to say. It was a big reveal on how you feel about us. There is more to this thought. But I simply don’t have the emotional energy into it right now. I appreciate your insight. I need you to believe me when I say that I will always choose my ability to handle my shit on my own because nobody can hold that over my head.”

The conversation on the phone was Friday night when she said about her daughter being pregnant. My only response was “oh, okay” but with disappointment.

The drunk part was texts early Saturday. I was not drunk. I said three things:

1. It wasn’t fair for you to tell me the change of plans until after I gave you money. I did request it back.

2. I said it is hard being in a long distance relationship when I don’t get responses to 12+ hours when you are home.

3. Add that for some reason you don’t want me visiting and it is hard to handle. I emphasized that I wasn’t making any type of claim but instead just hoping we can do things to make that easier - especially if the time to get together is now up in the air.

I was probably still high. I was probably a bit paranoid. But it wasn’t drunk talking. It was something I spent all night ruminating on.
 
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I feel like this is a common refrain with men. I talk to lots of different people each day and get their social history as a part of my job, and more often than not the men over 40 tell me they have very few (if any) close friends. It’s sad to me — I think men could really really benefit from male friendships.
Long article here about guys losing friends once they're married, deep into relationships or have kids - rooted in male mentality of machismo, stoicism, making fun of each other vs toasting one another. This guy actually has a deep potential friend-group which definitely isn't common, but even he easily lost touch with all of them.

Interesting to me was a few rules he'd heard somewhere for KEEPING good friends (not same as making them)
1. Text your buddies once a week
2. Call once a month
3. See them in person once a quarter.

 
This mirrors my experience.
I consider myself lucky to have some friends that probably meet the category of see them once a quarter, text every few weeks (never call though). Meaningful convos with guys happen much more frequently in one-on-one setting even at my middle-age. Same two guys in a group and we're talking sports, politics, crappy coworkers, parenting goof-ups, but then one-on-one we'll talk about delicate matters - work fears, family challenges, relationship issues, wanderlust, escapism, etc.
The one i see the least and text the least is difficult to get into deep stuff even when just us though.
 
Here is her last response.

“I am not trying to punish you or anything with a silent treatment. This was more than just a trigger moment. It was an insight on the future and I have my suspicions currently that you are going to make me pay for what others have done to you in the past. I also have this strong feeling that there was truth behind your words, even though you had been drinking. And I am trying to process all of it. It wasn’t hurting my feelings, it hit me to the core how everything changed so quickly. It wasn’t a “misunderstanding”. I understood your tone when it changed while we talked on the phone. And I had already known deep down inside that this is where we were headed, and that is why I was trying to work through it on my own first before talking to you about it.

And it wasn’t just you being a “dick” as you like to say. It was a big reveal on how you feel about us. There is more to this thought. But I simply don’t have the emotional energy into it right now. I appreciate your insight. I need you to believe me when I say that I will always choose my ability to handle my shit on my own because nobody can hold that over my head.”
Perhaps she has expectations of financial support that don't match your own.

While you say that she is only looking at herself, I'd remind you that she's the one planning on ripping up her life and moving to you. And that is no small thing. And it makes her vulnerable. What if you dump her? What if she needs financial help (there are moving costs) and you won't provide it? what if you aren't really committed to her?

I'd say you really need to take account of those factors. Maybe you already have, but I'm guessing that neither of you have talked about this elephant in the room. And it's super common for people to move and then break up. Hell, Tinder even did an ad about it -- it had a woman saying she totally dug this guy, and moved across the country to be with him, and he turned out to be an asshole, but now she's in LA and loving life. I guess they were trying to make lemonade there, but the fact is that these cross-country moves are hard without commitments, and the commitments are hard without the move.

In the old days, men on the frontier would send for women in cities. Usually they had met briefly and already married, or else the marriage was scheduled upon her arrival. That's the commitment that can make it work.

I'm not saying that you have to marry her (duh) but it seems like she's doubting your commitment and that's rational of her. It isn't necessarily a thing against you -- none of us can be sure in our commitments because we change. It's also possible she's getting cold feet about it and this is her way of blowing it up because she's afraid.
 
Nothing good. Most is incomprehensible. As I said she had a very rough family life. Single mother who was an alcoholic and drug user. Would take off for weeks with her having to figure out how to care for her brothers. Finally the mom took off with her two younger brothers when she was 15 and she spent the rest of high school.

I don’t remember what I said here but after I sent her $1000 and she told me that our plans will probably be changing / pushed back, I told her she owed me that info first.

She got into how not even her ex husband knows the story of her growing up and that she shared it with me (I was there but didn’t really know it though my mom did) and I used it against her.

I am baffled because I have never ever used it against her or even mentioned it. She then said she would give me the money back because she doesn’t want me to use it over her.
I told her that was unfair. I told her about two friends who have owed me more than $1000 each for 20 years and never paid it back and I have never once mentioned it to either.

Well she is one of them. I had no idea if she even remembers. But I think she does and that upset her. I was not calling her out. I was trying to defend myself saying I don’t hold money over people and I intentionally did not mention her. In retrospect I should have just mentioned my other friend.

But while I don’t want to embarrass her (and I tried not to) that history does play a role here. Because we talked for years before that. (This was years after we date.). She told me she was mailing the rest of the money but it never fame. Then pretty quickly she dropped off.

It is clear she was embarrassed that her and her husband couldn’t pay me back but it wasn’t about the money to me. It was about losing a friend because I helped her family out.
So when this happened this week it triggered those memories.

I really think that she is viewing everything from her perspective and not putting herself in my shoes. I am not thinking of embarrassing her. I just need to protect myself.

She took it like we talked of being a partnership and my response revealed otherwise. You know, we are a partnership but she is in Denver now. Things are not the same as if we were together: especially when she springs it on me that our plans could be delayed by six months.

I told her by October she may have reconciled with her daughter and now has a new precious grandchild. That may not be her plan, but I know how life works. I know that her family is priority number one and that our plans may never come to fruition.

And I deserved to know that before giving her money for a car.

Here is her last response.

“I am not trying to punish you or anything with a silent treatment. This was more than just a trigger moment. It was an insight on the future and I have my suspicions currently that you are going to make me pay for what others have done to you in the past. I also have this strong feeling that there was truth behind your words, even though you had been drinking. And I am trying to process all of it. It wasn’t hurting my feelings, it hit me to the core how everything changed so quickly. It wasn’t a “misunderstanding”. I understood your tone when it changed while we talked on the phone. And I had already known deep down inside that this is where we were headed, and that is why I was trying to work through it on my own first before talking to you about it.

And it wasn’t just you being a “dick” as you like to say. It was a big reveal on how you feel about us. There is more to this thought. But I simply don’t have the emotional energy into it right now. I appreciate your insight. I need you to believe me when I say that I will always choose my ability to handle my shit on my own because nobody can hold that over my head.”

The conversation on the phone was Friday night when she said about her daughter being pregnant. My only response was “oh, okay” but with disappointment.

The drunk part was texts early Saturday. I was not drunk. I said three things:

1. It wasn’t fair for you to tell me the change of plans until after I gave you money. I did request it back.

2. I said it is hard being in a long distance relationship when I don’t get responses to 12+ hours when you are home.

3. Add that for some reason you don’t want me visiting and it is hard to handle. I emphasized that I wasn’t making any type of claim but instead just hoping we can do things to make that easier - especially if the time to get together is now up in the air.

I was probably still high. I was probably a bit paranoid. But it wasn’t drunk talking. It was something I spent all night ruminating on.
As in my earlier post I hope I will be kind

One question to ask yourself is why she doesn't want you to visit in her time of need and support ?

I am going out on a limb based upon very limited information, but it seems to me that this is a damaged woman going back to childhood.

Many red flags for you to consider...

If I was your friend and sharing a few beers, I would advise you to let her go as painful as that may be in the short run and wait to meet someone who is emotoinally stable and can appreciate the good and generous person that you are
 
Take good care to allow time to be your friend! Watch, listen and respond as best you can then give yourself grace. Do you know why she does not want you to visit her? Having visited you, it seems a similar visit from you allows each of you to see one another's way of life. Why would she leave some of her belongings at your home after one visit? Does that raise any boundary issues for you. Proceed with caution because her 'tough life growing up' can have present day consequences if she has not worked through the damage an alcoholic parent inflicts on their children. That was indeed then but many carry that damage into the present day. Lastly, be kind to yourself, today, tomorrow and always!
 
One question to ask yourself is why she doesn't want you to visit in her time of need and support ?
This jumped out at me too. And not even in a time of need and support, but just for a fun visit. Might be nothing or just she was going to be busy at a time you suggested you could come, but if it's "no" every time you suggest it, I'd wonder why. And it's not like y'all have to stay at her place the whole time, there's plenty to do and places to stay in the Denver environs. Just something to think about (or ask her directly about)...

Good luck, dude. My heartbreaks are years behind me now, but it does suck. Hopefully that's not what this is...
 
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