—> ICE / Immigration Catch-All

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1moretimeagain said:
I watched the video. Momentarily I feared for their safety as the 80 year old began his attack.
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So, as long as you appear to be old and not very strong, it's okay to assault federal agents. Do I have that right?

Are we going to have federal agents ID people to see how old they are? Maybe we should have a push-up contest to test the person's strength?
 
ZenMode said:
So, as long as you appear to be old and not very strong, it's okay to assault federal agents. Do I have that right?

Are we going to have federal agents ID people to see how old they are? Maybe we should have a push-up contest to test the person's strength?
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So now you have moved from initiating an " altercation " to initiating an "assault" ?

Seriously ?

The initial encounter occurred when the guy ran down the hall of his store to go outside and help his employees. At the same time the stormtrooper was coming to enter the store. When the guy saw the the stormtrooper coming toward him blocking his progress, he made an effort to stop running and even slipped a bit trying to stop short of contact. At that point the stormtrooper initiated contact and knocked him to the floor.
 
heelinhell said:
So now you have moved from initiating an " altercation " to initiating an "assault" ?

Seriously ?
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The action outdoors would be viewed as an assault, yes.
heelinhell said:
The initial encounter occurred when the guy ran down the hall of his store to go outside and help his employees. At the same time the stormtrooper was coming to enter the store. When the guy saw the the stormtrooper coming toward him blocking his progress, he made an effort to stop running and even slipped a bit trying to stop short of contact. At that point the stormtrooper initiated contact and knocked him to the floor.
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HE ran toward the ice agents and initiated the contact while trying to block the agents, and got knocked over.
 
heelinhell said:
So now you have moved from initiating an " altercation " to initiating an "assault" ?

Seriously ?

The initial encounter occurred when the guy ran down the hall of his store to go outside and help his employees. At the same time the stormtrooper was coming to enter the store. When the guy saw the the stormtrooper coming toward him blocking his progress, he made an effort to stop running and even slipped a bit trying to stop short of contact. At that point the stormtrooper initiated contact and knocked him to the floor.
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When the old man is running and trying to stop, we also see him assault the wall with his right hand.
 
ZenMode said:
He initiated a physical altercation with law enforcement agent. What does he expect?
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LOL. So pathetic. He was very clearly knocked to the ground on the officer's initiative inside the store. So right there, it's on the officer and everything after that is the officer's fault.

But there wasn't more because outside, he was obviously just trying to get the officer's attention. Since you seem not to understand the definition of assault, I will explain -- tapping someone on the shoulder to get their attention is not that. The definition of assault is literally to intentionally cause fear of physical harm to another.

I don't see anything there that would cause fear to anyone, and it's certainly not intentional.

Meanwhile, the officers' responsibility to use force proportional to the threat posed. That clearly did not happen. The officers' response was grossly excessive, and a man that age being slammed to the ground could suffer severe injuries. All because he wanted to get the attention of the stormtroopers illegally raiding his workplace.
 
I am still waiting for someone to shoot an ICE agent in self defense when they try to grab someone wearing masks and not showing ID and a warrant.
 
nycfan said:
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They’re literally collaborating with right wing TikTok, insta, etc influencers. Letting them into operations, into ice facilities, etc. This is an assault on any form of truth or any form of expression that does not adhere to Herr Miller’s expectations.
 
superrific said:
LOL. So pathetic. He was very clearly knocked to the ground on the officer's initiative inside the store. So right there, it's on the officer and everything after that is the officer's fault.
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You believe that citizens can intentionally block law enforcement?
superrific said:
But there wasn't more because outside, he was obviously just trying to get the officer's attention.
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By putting hands on him, in the middle of law enforcement activity.
superrific said:
Since you seem not to understand the definition of assault, I will explain -- tapping someone on the shoulder to get their attention is not that.
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That's clearly not what he did.
superrific said:
The definition of assault is literally to intentionally cause fear of physical harm to another.
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That's not the legal definition of assault.
superrific said:
I don't see anything there that would cause fear to anyone, and it's certainly not intentional.
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I've never seen fear as a requirement for assault.
superrific said:
Meanwhile, the officers' responsibility to use force proportional to the threat posed. That clearly did not happen. The officers' response was grossly excessive, and a man that age being slammed to the ground could suffer severe injuries. All because he wanted to get the attention of the stormtroopers illegally raiding his workplace.
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"Get the attention of.." :rolleyes:
 
ZenMode said:
That's not the legal definition of assault.

I've never seen fear as a requirement for assault.

"Get the attention of.." :rolleyes:
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www.law.cornell.edu

assault

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

What on Earth would possess you to dispute legal definitions with me? It's not fear like "I'm afraid of Dracula"; it's fear, as in apprehension. Just because you don't understand the law does not give you the right to create your own definitions.
 
ZenMode said:
You believe that citizens can intentionally block law enforcement?

By putting hands on him, in the middle of law enforcement activity.

That's clearly not what he did.

That's not the legal definition of assault.


I've never seen fear as a requirement for assault.

"Get the attention of.." :rolleyes:
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Have you watched the video above ?

If so I would be interested in your opinion as to whether these law enforcement agents (aka Stormtroopers ) had cause to wrestle this woman to the ground and sexually assault her by removing her clothes ?
 
heelinhell said:
Have you watched the video above ?

If so I would be interested in your opinion as to whether these law enforcement agents (aka Stormtroopers ) had cause to wrestle this woman to the ground and sexually assault her by removing her clothes ?
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I mean, seriously, those officers committed felony offenses.

As we've said before, the arrival of the NG or ICE doesn't reduce crime. It just changes the identity of the criminals.
 
superrific said:
I mean, seriously, those officers committed felony offenses.

As we've said before, the arrival of the NG or ICE doesn't reduce crime. It just changes the identity of the criminals.
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Assuming she is not disappeared, I would think she has a slam dunk lawsuit she could settle for millions dollars.
 
heelinhell said:
Have you watched the video above ?

If so I would be interested in your opinion as to whether these law enforcement agents (aka Stormtroopers ) had cause to wrestle this woman to the ground and sexually assault her by removing her clothes ?
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Zen thinks anything other than 100% fawning and supplication when it comes to LEO'S is grounds for all use of force up to and including death.
 
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