—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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Callatoroy said:
lol at these ridiculous hypothetical situations that aren't relevent. How many would instruct their kids to go intervene in these ice raids? My guess is not many. And if you wouldn't tell your kid to get in the middle of it you shouldn't hope or expect anyone else to. It's just not good and the implications of intervening isn't to complicated to understand if you are applying good faith. The real rub is that the extreme left doesn't want anyone in these sanctuary states deported. Doesn't matter if they had a criminal record or not. The left wants everyone here illegally to be allowed to stay. Full stop.

I also see no blame placed on the gov. or mayor for their role in this other than in right wing media. They have played a huge role so far but I'm just not seeing anyone show any objectivity because my guess is they don't believe in our immigration laws and fully support subverting them. Otherwise there would be calls coming from the left that were similar to Pence's statement.
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What role? They have been both telling people to peacefully protest and film ICE. Neither of which is illegal. They have been saying to not take president dipshits bait and resort to violence, that's what he wants. So what "huge role" are you talking about. Also, how are they subverting immigration laws? From earlier in this thread:

"The Governor reminded President Trump that the Minnesota Department of Corrections already honors federal detainers by notifying Immigration and Customs Enforcement when a person committed to its custody isn’t a U.S. citizen. There is not a single documented case of the department’s releasing someone from state prison without offering to ensure a smooth transfer of custody."

So you're just making stuff up again? If not, be specific.
 
superrific said:
None of this is true. That's not a real rub -- that's just your projection. It's what you guys do: assign nefarious motives to unobjectionable behavior to justify your criticism. Do you really think Renee Good wanted everyone here illegally be allowed to stay?

[Note: many of the people being detained ARE here legally, just not in ways that the Trump administration likes. For instance, anyone who entered with Biden's app is here legally].

Perhaps you could elaborate on how the governor and/or mayor has played some role. But more than likely, you cannot. You're just throwing shit against a wall.
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This is standard MAGA strategy, assign a position to the Dems that we do not hold and argue against that. I have NEVER encountered a single liberal that wants violent criminals to remain here illegally. It's complete BS and Callatoroy knows it.
 
Callatoroy said:
lol at these ridiculous hypothetical situations that aren't relevent. How many would instruct their kids to go intervene in these ice raids? My guess is not many. And if you wouldn't tell your kid to get in the middle of it you shouldn't hope or expect anyone else to. It's just not good and the implications of intervening isn't to complicated to understand if you are applying good faith. The real rub is that the extreme left doesn't want anyone in these sanctuary states deported. Doesn't matter if they had a criminal record or not. The left wants everyone here illegally to be allowed to stay. Full stop.

I also see no blame placed on the gov. or mayor for their role in this other than in right wing media. They have played a huge role so far but I'm just not seeing anyone show any objectivity because my guess is they don't believe in our immigration laws and fully support subverting them. Otherwise there would be calls coming from the left that were similar to Pence's statement.
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You're a joke. You just keep making shit up. You're a complete clown.
 
CHAMTRAIN said:
This is standard MAGA strategy, assign a position to the Dems that we do not hold and argue against that. I have NEVER encountered a single liberal that wants violent criminals to remain here illegally. It's complete BS and Callatoroy knows it.
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He could ask people on this board what they want. He might be surprised.

In fact, he could create a poll in a new thread. I'd be curious in those results too.
 
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ZenMode said:
Not condoning murderer and encouraging or legalizing citizen intervention, when they don't like what they see, are different things.

After George Floyd, you would be okay with citizens actively intervening or assaulting any police officer that is kneeling on a suspect?
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For multiple minutes and the person can't breathe? Absofuckinglutely.
 
CFordUNC said:
I think we should: 1. arrest and deport any and all violent undocumented immigrants; 2. leave alone the law-abiding ones who are here to work and contribute to our economy and society; 3. arrest and put before a jury trial of their peers each and every federal agent directly responsible for the heinous murders of Renee Good and Alex Pretti; and 4. impeach and remove the individuals whose explicit commands or whose lack of oversight/control of their for subordinates resulted in the execution of two American citizens exercising their Constitutional rights.
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See, we agree on all of those points, though I suspect you are much more confident on #4 being a fact, than I am.
 
Jetson said:
Oh, you mean this:

"Oh you can blame ice for the random cases that fall through the cracks that will eventually get fixed and those are unfortunate. But you can't bring yourself to thank ice for getting thousands upon thousands of murderers and rapists, and child molesters out of this country. So that makes you a hypocrite and someone who cares more about a green card holder than the people who have had family members murdered by people your party invited in. You should be deeply regretful for supporting the biden / harris border policy. But, you aren't. Such misplaced priorities and devoid of sympathy for those you played a part in their deaths."

?

Yeah, dude was and is a fraud. "Thousands upon thousands of murders, rapists coming in when those crimes have been falling for 3 fucking years.

He then made this post to try to prove his point:

-------
“During a recent nationwide gang surge, ICE arrested over 1,780 individuals, with 1,472 identified as gang members, associates, or those facing criminal charges. Approximately 35% of those arrested had violent criminal histories, and 16 were identified as gang leaders, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Additionally, a separate operation focusing on MS-13 and 18th Street gangs resulted in 274 MS-13 arrests and 15 arrests related to the 18th Street gang.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
  • Gang Surge Arrests: 1,785 individuals arrested, with 1,472 identified as gang-related.

  • Violent Criminal Histories: Nearly 35% of those arrested had prior violent criminal records.

  • Gang Leaders: 16 individuals arrested were identified as gang leaders.

  • Criminal Charges: ICE also arrested individuals on charges including attempted murder, aggravated assault, and drug/firearms violations.

  • Operation Matador: Targeting MS-13 and other gangs, this operation resulted in 274 MS-13 arrests and 15 arrests associated with the 18th Street gang, according to ICE.

  • Criminal Records: Some gang members arrested had prior criminal histories, including assault
------

He was really convinced he had something here, even though this content looks to be AI generated. Which is usually reliable, but it's always good to check your work because the link (click it) is an article from fucking 2009. You know, back when ICE actually did some investigative work and their mission wasn't just to round up brown people in blue cities.

But he'll preach to this board about the left being influenced by the "biased" media when he can't even look at the governments own data to make a valid point.

Thank god we have him to give us an unbiased perspective on immigration.

Another fake ass human.
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This was Callatoroy, months ago on this thread. Posting an article, with a nice summary about how ICE was arresting criminals. From 2009.

Roughly DOUBLE the amount of repatriations under Biden than Trump 1.0, but it was "open borders". Completely disconnected from reality, but tell us how great you are at filtering through the media bias that favors the left.

Joke.
 
ZenMode said:
Because we know now how wrong racism and Nazism is.

Did you read my entire post or just the first part and respond? If you read my whole post, I think I address why intervening in specific, individual police actions is an issue.
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We don't just "know now how wrong racism and Nazism is." People knew it at the time - including the people who acted against it, breaking the law while doing so. You either believe that people can and should resist laws that they believe to be morally unjust, or you don't. The people who are opposing ICE's actions believe that those actions are every bit as unjust and morally wrong as those of the American officials who sought to enforce runaway slave laws and the German officials who sought to enforce a state-sanctioned pogrom against Jews. You may disagree with their judgment, but if you agree at a more fundamental level that it is right to oppose injustice, even as perpetuated by the government, then you should support their right to do so, not criticize them.

Also, I don't agree with the distinction you're making. Hiding or transporting an individual runway slave was "intervening in specific, individual police actions." Every European who hid a Jewish person in their attic or basement was "intervening in specific, individual police actions." You are looking back at history and trying to distinguish a larger movement from individual actions happening in real time. But those larger movements were made up of hundreds, thousands, or millions of individual actions by people to resist what they believed were unjust laws, and resist the enforcement of those laws by governmental authorities.
 
CFordUNC said:
I think we should: 1. arrest and deport any and all violent undocumented immigrants; 2. leave alone the law-abiding ones who are here to work and contribute to our economy and society; 3. arrest and put before a jury trial of their peers each and every federal agent directly responsible for the heinous murders of Renee Good and Alex Pretti; and 4. impeach and remove the individuals whose explicit commands or whose lack of oversight/control of their for subordinates resulted in the execution of two American citizens exercising their Constitutional rights.
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I agree with all those points too. We do need to do a better job of deporting the violent folks while we fix the wink and nod system for the nonviolent folks.

Like Zen, I'm not too confident on point 4, but I definitely want investigation. If there were supervisors and higher ups out there pushing these ICE agents to escalate, heads need to roll.
 
Jetson said:
What role? They have been both telling people to peacefully protest and film ICE. Neither of which is illegal. They have been saying to not take president dipshits bait and resort to violence, that's what he wants. So what "huge role" are you talking about. Also, how are they subverting immigration laws? From earlier in this thread:

"The Governor reminded President Trump that the Minnesota Department of Corrections already honors federal detainers by notifying Immigration and Customs Enforcement when a person committed to its custody isn’t a U.S. citizen. There is not a single documented case of the department’s releasing someone from state prison without offering to ensure a smooth transfer of custody."

So you're just making stuff up again? If not, be specific.
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How about the role of rolling out the welcome mat for people who are here illegally, telling them they won't be held to the laws of the land, and then make conflicting comments when the chaos starts. How about telling federal agents to leave who are here to enforce the laws that the gov and mayor ignore. If you don't see that as a problem then again you object to any immigration enforcement.
 
Callatoroy said:
lol. its hard to remove people when they don't come. It isn't solely about number of people removed.
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You didn't catch the point. You said that Biden didn't want to enforce immigration law. And yet you were presented with direct evidence flatly contradicting your statement. Changing the topic from interior enforcement to entry is just an admission that your position is untenable.
 


MacCallum:That investigation is ongoing so we don't know yet whether or not the agents acted appropriately, correct?

BPCP: It's really tough to blame the agents involved in this…
 
Callatoroy said:
How about the role of rolling out the welcome mat for people who are here illegally, telling them they won't be held to the laws of the land, and then make conflicting comments when the chaos starts. How about telling federal agents to leave who are here to enforce the laws that the gov and mayor ignore. If you don't see that as a problem then again you object to any immigration enforcement.
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You literally have a quote right there in that post making clear that the governor and mayor are not "ignoring" immigration laws (which are, in any event, not their responsibility to enforce). You also have numerous posts from people on this thread explaining how one can oppose ICE's deployment and methods but not oppose "any immigration enforcement." Do you think if you just keep repeating the same wrong statements they will eventually become true?
 
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