—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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Jetson said:
I love how people say it's organized left wing agitators that are on our streets. As if all 10s of thousands of us who were out there Friday in -15 weather were paid protestors. Yeah, we're organized, trying to protect our friends and neighbors. I have friends and neighbors who are out there, seeing other friends and neighbors, on the streets, because their friends and neighbors are getting murdered and kidnapped, be it people with a pending asylum case, documented immigrants, or US citizens. Every time someone mentions stupid shit like "leftist groups" it becomes clear they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

But yeah, we're organized.
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Sounds like you are part of a dangerous communist cell, as callatoroy would describe it. Scary!
 
Callatoroy said:
Would expressing support for Cuba and Maduro change your opinion as to whether or not that was an anti american group?
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Recall that you asked me about a type group and not a specific group. That is what I responded to. Now go make up your own stories in your head or respond to my post and quit trying to play word games you suck at.

ETA: Fwiw, according to the First Amendment, they have the same right to have stupid ideas as you do. It's how they act on them.
 
ZenMode said:
but, again, you can't get between law enforcement (even those that you really, really dislike) and someone they are trying to detain or arrest.
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And again, I have to point out that you don't know what you're talking about. "Getting between law enforcement and someone they are trying to arrest" is not illegal unless it is forcible (and even there there are other predicates that must be satisfied) or unless the person is aware that the agents have a warrant for the person being arrested.
 
CFordUNC said:
You clearly have not watched any of the videos of the incident. The woman whom the ICE officers pushed to the ground was on the opposite sidewalk- on the opposite side of the street. The agent literally sprinted across the road to push her- not attempt to arrest or detain her, but shove her.

Pretti was very clearly standing on that same side of the street, video recording on his cell phone. When the woman was pushed to the ground, he went to help her up. "Are you ok?" were his last words. It's on video, man. Like, we have it on video! There's no ambiguity.

You can bootlick, or hand-wave, or twist yourself into a pretzel to try to do whatever this weird thing is that you are doing, but the good news is, you are in a very small minority of American citizens who have watched the footage and who have come to your conclusion that there was anything that Alex Pretti did to instigate his execution. I'd recommend you not find yourself on the wrong side of history on this one.
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I've watched the video and, again, I don't mind him trying to help her but he's CLEARLY intent on getting in the way. When I first watched the video, the way he appeared to be dragging her was what I found to be initially concerning. I thought he was ICE because it appeared to be so violent.
 
finesse said:
Recall that you asked me about a type group and not a specific group. That is what I responded to. Now go make up your own stories in your head or respond to my post and quit trying to play word games you suck at.

ETA: Fwiw, according to the First Amendment, they have the same right to have stupid ideas as you do. It's how they act on them.
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If a group linked to organizing or funding the minnesota protests also expressed support for cuba or maduro, would you consider that Anti American?
 
rodoheel said:
(Which some of their opponents probably did say, and it was just as ridiculous then as now.)
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They absolutely did say that. It was common for white people to label MLK a communist. In fact, that's why Hoover spent so many FBI resources in attempts to infiltrate civil rights and anti-war movements. And if people didn't want to get specific, they said anti-American and let imaginations fill in the blanks.
 
Callatoroy said:
If a group linked to organizing or funding the minnesota protests also expressed support for cuba or maduro, would you consider that Anti American?
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It depends on what was being said. "Cuba has better health care than America" is not anti-American. "Cuba is right to imprison thousands as political prisoners" would be. I'm not familiar with anyone saying that.
 
ZenMode said:
you can't get between law enforcement (even those that you really, really dislike) and someone they are trying to detain or arrest.
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So, no one should have gotten between Derek Chauvin and George Floyd?

Just to teach you a little about the law here, DHS "officers" are not engaged in state police work and are not covered by Minnesota law as it relates to impeding arrest.

The only applicable law -- the one that DHS officers repeatedly cite - is 18 USC 111. That law requires forceable resistance. Merely getting in the way -- which could be a crime under various state laws -- is not a federal crime. Thus, DHS does not have the right to use ANY force with respect to people, such as Good or Pretti, who are not using force against them.
 
rodoheel said:
What makes those interventions "good"?
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Because we know now how wrong racism and Nazism is.

Did you read my entire post or just the first part and respond? If you read my whole post, I think I address why intervening in specific, individual police actions is an issue.
 
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