—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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BlooVooDoo said:
And this would be accomplished how? Tax policy via legislation passed by both chambers of congress?
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This is what’s crazy. Fear of passing law through the outlined constitutional method of government. But the unitary executive era we are living in is fine because it’s keeping the “marxists” at bay.
 
ZenMode said:
Absolutely not. As soon as it becomes legal for citizens to drag police off of suspect or take matters into their own hands in such situations, society breaks down.
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A badge is not a license to murder. All citizens have the right to defend others from wrongful injury. If you see a police officer murdering someone, it is your duty as a good human being to intervene, even if it potentially means your own death.
 
CFordUNC said:
I truly, truly do not intend for this to come across as defense of Trump in any way. I find him to be a despicable creation of essentially every single negative human vice and characteristic. That said, I don't think he is particularly bloodthirsty. People in his orbit like Stephen Miller? Absolutely. Kristi Noem, Greg Bovino, maybe even JD Vance? Almost certainly. But Trump, though a malignant narcissist and entirely self-absorbed and obsessed with wealth and power at all costs, doesn't strike me as someone who revels in the fact that a 37-year-old mother and a 37-year-old ICU nurse were executed in cold blood by ICE agents. Stephen Miller? Again, absolutely. But I don't think Trump himself is nearly as unmoved by these brutal executions as are several of his closest deputies.

That's why, in combination with his TACO nature, we see him retreating on this. He knows how badly damaging this has been for his administration, and he cares about that (only to the extent that it could cost him power and by extension wealth, but still). If people like Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem, or even JD Vance were truly in charge, this thing would get way, way worse.
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He may not want people shot dead specifically but he damn sure loves the show of power and people acquiescing to him. That’s like his number one favorite thing. He’s able to see when the PR winds are blowing against him but if the majority of people were ok with ICE blowing away protesters he’d be ramping it up and cheering.
 
HeelInTheOzarks said:
This is what’s crazy. Fear of passing law through the outlined constitutional method of government. But the unitary executive era we are living in is fine because it’s keeping the “marxists” at bay.
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Yeah, fundamentally the only thing that’s really anti-American is change enacted by means outside the constitution.
 
ZenMode said:
I agree and I think the ICE agent yelling "Gun! Gun!" wrongly triggered what happened.
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Maybe. I haven't looked at it in that detail. My guess is that this guy posed no threat at any point, was in the grasp of several people who are either afraid to be doing what they are doing, too poorly trained to be carrying guns, or both.
 
Callatoroy said:
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Redistribution and g'ment control.
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Ironically Trump has taken more government ownership and control of financially healthy private companies than any POTUS in the past century. I’m sure you would be totally ok with that if it was Biden doing it and not screaming about soshalizm!!
 
Calheel said:
A badge is not a license to murder.
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Agree and I think have too much freedom to use lethal force.
Calheel said:
All citizens have the right to defend others from wrongful injury. If you see a police officer murdering someone, it is your duty as a good human being to intervene, even if it potentially means your own death.
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Think about what you're saying. You want to allow citizens, based on their subjective view of a situation or just a general dislike for law enforcement, to LEGALLY intervene in any situation they don't agree with?

Again, that's recipe for the breakdown of law and order and eventually society.
 
nycfan said:
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"The many Americans victimized by 'illegal' aliens" ... OMFG.

Stats show the number of "victims" is tiny, but the this administration needs their boogeyman and they've hyped it to the max. Fear, fear, fear, hate, hate, hate. It's a winning formula to stay in power.
 
Callatoroy said:
Maybe. I haven't looked at it in that detail. My guess is that this guy posed no threat at any point, was in the grasp of several people who are either afraid to be doing what they are doing, too poorly trained to be carrying guns, or both.
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I agree and I called it an execution because he was shot in the back at a time where he didn't even possess the gun. YUGE fuck up.
 
ZenMode said:
Agree and I think have too much freedom to use lethal force.

Think about what you're saying. You want to allow citizens, based on their subjective view of a situation or just a general dislike for law enforcement, to LEGALLY intervene in any situation they don't agree with?

Again, that's recipe for the breakdown of law and order and society
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Yes, 100%. If you subjectively believe that an officer is murdering someone, you have the legal right and moral duty to intervene.

It is not simply something you disagree with. If you intervene without just cause, then you will face the legal consequences.
 
Calheel said:
A badge is not a license to murder. All citizens have the right to defend others from wrongful injury. If you see a police officer murdering someone, it is your duty as a good human being to intervene, even if it potentially means your own death.
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Was the police officer murdering her? It isn't a hard concept to grasp without trying to use extreme anecdotes. Don't get in the middle of it. You don't know what is happening and why. Stay away, protest, and record. The groups orchestrating these protests want people to get killed / maimed as much as the left says ice wants to shoot people.
 
Calheel said:
It is not simply something you disagree with. If you intervene without just cause, then you will face the legal consequences.
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You're creating a situation where police are now fighting with suspects and citizens. Any citizen who takes issue with something the cop is doing.

At the point the person who is determined to have "wrongly intervened" is punished, it's too late.

What you're suggesting is completely unsustainable.
 
ZenMode said:
You're creating a situation where police are now fighting with suspects and citizens. Any citizen who takes issue with something the cop is doing.

At the point the person who is determined to have "wrongly intervened" is punished, it's too late.

What you're suggesting is completely unsustainable.
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And how people get shot.
 
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