Iran Catch-All | IRAN WAR

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Callatoroy said:
You can't make that kind of a determination from what he tweets. This board isn't exactly objective on his sanity. Would I be sad if he was stepping down for health reasons? Probably not.
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But you can determine Biden was unsuited based on his public appearances?

(FTR, in my view, yes we could then, and yes we absolutely can now.)
 
This will likely be the out, even if Iran does not agree to reopen Hormuz.

Pakistani prime minister asks Trump to extend deadline by two weeks​

By Michael Rios

Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif has asked warring parties to observe a two-week ceasefire to “allow diplomacy to achieve conclusive termination of war” in a post on X.

He has also asked US President Donald Trump to extend his deadline on Iran by two weeks and for Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz during that two-week period.
 
4thgenheel said:

Democratic Backsliding Reaches Western Democracies, with U.S. Decline “Unprecedented” – V-Dem

Press Release for the V-Dem Institute Democracy Report 2026: "Unraveling The Democratic Era?"
www.v-dem.net www.v-dem.net

Democracy in the USA deteriorating at unprecedented scale and speed​

The U.S. democracy is currently in a much faster deterioration process than any other democracy in modern times. Within only one year, the USA’s score on the V-Dem Liberal Democracy index has declined by 24 percent, while its world rank dropped from 20th to 51st place out of 179 nations.
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4thgenheel said:

Democratic Backsliding Reaches Western Democracies, with U.S. Decline “Unprecedented” – V-Dem

Press Release for the V-Dem Institute Democracy Report 2026: "Unraveling The Democratic Era?"
www.v-dem.net www.v-dem.net

Democracy in the USA deteriorating at unprecedented scale and speed​

The U.S. democracy is currently in a much faster deterioration process than any other democracy in modern times. Within only one year, the USA’s score on the V-Dem Liberal Democracy index has declined by 24 percent, while its world rank dropped from 20th to 51st place out of 179 nations.
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I have no words for that. Couldn't give specific reasons, just general assertions. I know the left feels this, but I don't see it. Please tell me how the US is slipping.
 
Callatoroy said:
You can't make that kind of a determination from what he tweets. This board isn't exactly objective on his sanity. Would I be sad if he was stepping down for health reasons? Probably not.
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He is not insane. He is an anti social malignant narcissist who is in rapid cognitive decline, and I base that opinion upon my 30 years of experience in psychiatry.

I'm encouraged that military leaders are beginning to see this, and I hope whoever has the nuclear football recognizes this and is hiding the football from Trump.

lawtig02 is absolutely correct. Trump is a clear and present danger to continue as president and not only is it a moral thing to call for his removal from office, it is the duty of his cabinet to execute the 25th Amendment and Congress to remove him from office.
 
lawtig02 said:
Ok, I think that's a good spot to end the discussion. I agree (1) is a valid option that did not require us to go to war with Iran. I do not agree (2) is a valid option, as it cannot be done without exposing thousands of American soldiers to immense harm, including from radiation, and even if we somehow pulled it off, we could not stop Iran from starting over unless we keep troops on site indefinitely. The other, and vastly more preferential, option is a negotiated monitoring and verification regime, which we had, which could have been extended, but which Trump is uniquely unsuited to put in place again.
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Number 1 wasn't the reason we went to war with iran when we did. If that were the only reason, monitoring the bombed sites, then I would agree with you.
But israel was going and that made it necesary.

So an agreement that actually requires full access to all areas without weeks advance notice
Doesn't give them any type of path to enrichment ever
Where the US provides the tech for civilian nuclear use
iran agrees to end all financial and military support for proxies
iran agrees the control of the strait is a free passageway for commerce and management of the strait would be made up of a consortium of countries.

I can get on board with an agreement like that
 
Callatoroy said:
Number 1 wasn't the reason we went to war with iran when we did. If that were the only reason, monitoring the bombed sites, then I would agree with you.
But israel was going and that made it necesary.

So an agreement that actually requires full access to all areas without weeks advance notice
Doesn't give them any type of path to enrichment ever
Where the US provides the tech for civilian nuclear use
iran agrees to end all financial and military support for proxies
iran agrees the control of the strait is a free passageway for commerce and management of the strait would be made up of a consortium of countries.

I can get on board with an agreement like that
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Then we’re definitely going to need a different president.
 
Callatoroy said:
Get back to me when our democracy fails. Nothing you predicted is close to reality.
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Really? One thing we disagreed on on November 6, 2024 was when I said we would have high mortgage rates for at least 18-24 months because of Trump.
Was I right or were you right?
(Go ahead and admit you were wrong and then I’ll go to the next thing I was right about and you were wrong about).

Also, I never once said we our democracy would fail. You know this but I do understand you don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to this particular discussion, so I understand why you resort to just making shit up.
 
Callatoroy said:
Do you feel like we can leave and let iran control the strait?
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That wasn't an issue before this "not a war" operation.
I heard about a "deal" with 15 points. How is that going?
Other than making Iran into a parking lot, what is the plan and what progress has been made?
 
Thought I would create this fun tracking chart.

Before the WarNow
Iran's uraniumBuried in IranBuried in the exact same places in Iran
Iran's ruling regimeTerroristic religious fundamentalistsYounger, more extreme terroristic religious fundamentalists
Strait of HormuzOpenClosed
US combat deaths in 2026Zero13
US combat injuries in 2026Zero~200
Price of oil~$70/barrel$112/barrel
Average gallon of gas in the US$2.98$4.14
Number of times a US president has threatened to end a civilizationZero1
 
lawtig02 said:
Thought I would create this fun tracking chart.

Before the WarNow
Iran's uraniumBuried in IranBuried in the exact same places in Iran
Iran's ruling regimeTerroristic religious fundamentalistsYounger, more extreme terroristic religious fundamentalists
Strait of HormuzOpenClosed
US combat deaths in 2026Zero13
US combat injuries in 2026Zero~200
Price of oil~$70/barrel$112/barrel
Average gallon of gas in the US$2.98$4.14
Number of times a US president has threatened to end a civilizationZero1
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What you seem to be missing is the reason we attacked iran when we did. It isn't like we were just sitting around and said hey let's attack iran. The timing and israel's intent is critical to the entire discussion. Agreeing with it or not is reasonable, but to ignore it undermines your nicely constructed chart.
 
Callatoroy said:
What you seem to be missing is the reason we attacked iran when we did. It isn't like we were just sitting around and said hey let's attack iran. The timing and israel's intent is critical to the entire discussion. Agreeing with it or not is reasonable, but to ignore it undermines your nicely constructed chart.
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It seems like our main justification in attacking Iran is that Trump got bullied into doing so by Israel.
 
Callatoroy said:
What you seem to be missing is the reason we attacked iran when we did. It isn't like we were just sitting around and said hey let's attack iran. The timing and israel's intent is critical to the entire discussion. Agreeing with it or not is reasonable, but to ignore it undermines your nicely constructed chart.
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Why? Even if we attacked when we did because we knew Israel was about to attack and we were worried about Iranian retaliation against our bases and personnel in the ME, what in the chart does that render inaccurate or misleading?
 
lawtig02 said:
But you can determine Biden was unsuited based on his public appearances?

(FTR, in my view, yes we could then, and yes we absolutely can now.)
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You can spot the kind of decline biden displayed. The confusion, inability to finish sentences, etc. trump doesn't display the same type of decline if he has any decline.
 
Callatoroy said:
You can't make that kind of a determination from what he tweets. This board isn't exactly objective on his sanity. Would I be sad if he was stepping down for health reasons? Probably not.
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Sure you can. He’s either mentally ill or he’s perfectly sane. If he’s sane, his comments are far more bellicose than anything coming out of Iran. He’s openly threatened to intentionally commit war crimes - targeting civilians, non-military infrastructure, hospitals, churches. He’s even hinted at the use of nuclear weapons (bombing them back to the stone age). Crazy or criminal. Either way he’s unfit for the office.

And you probably wouldn’t be sad if he had to step down?
 
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Callatoroy said:
So what is the consensus here. Hoping he goes through with it so you guys can bitch about that, or hoping he delays so you can play the taco game? Either way its a win for you guys right. Is there a right option for trump today?
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Trump's lack of good options now is a direct consequence of the catastrophically bad choices he's been making for more than a month now. But he's almost certainly about to call off the dogs for at least two weeks. I'm highly skeptical Iran will have compromised on anything, but Trump will use the Pakistani negotiations as cover.
 
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