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Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
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ZenMode said:
"The IDF has updated their statement to say they are investigating the incident and initial statements."

Investigating and punishing is what they should do.

When's the last time Hamas investigated its members?

That's right......never. You'd have to have expectations for behavior in order to justify an investigation.
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lol, you’re so gullible. Name one time they have actually punished a soldier. Also, no one has suggested Hamas is any better. You still don’t get that.
 
RaiGuy said:
lol, you’re so gullible. Name one time they have actually punished a soldier. Also, no one has suggested Hamas is any better. You still don’t get that.
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Two months ago.

Israeli soldier sentenced to 7 months in jail for abusing Palestinian detainees​

www.nbcnews.com

Israeli soldier sentenced to 7 months in jail for abusing Palestinian detainees

The Israeli military said the reservist admitted to having “severely abused” Palestinian detainees at the Sde Teiman military detention center near the border with the Gaza Strip.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Of course, the chances of your sources reporting that are about the same as Fox News reporting the completely reasonable sentences give to J6 rioters.

By the way, it took me less than 10 seconds to find that. I searched 'IDF soldier convicted ' and it was the first result.
 
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Won't take long to find the UN and Hamas have restated their casualties figures as well. Both sides media are not believable.
 
ZenMode said:
Two months ago.

Israeli soldier sentenced to 7 months in jail for abusing Palestinian detainees​

www.nbcnews.com

Israeli soldier sentenced to 7 months in jail for abusing Palestinian detainees

The Israeli military said the reservist admitted to having “severely abused” Palestinian detainees at the Sde Teiman military detention center near the border with the Gaza Strip.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Of course, the chances of your sources reporting that are about the same as Fox News reporting the completely reasonable sentences give to J6 rioters.

By the way, it took me less than 10 seconds to find that. I searched 'IDF soldier convicted ' and it was the first result.
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yeah, ONE unidentified soldier supposedly got 7 months for torturing Palestinians. Wow, let's give them a standing ovation. Also, weirdly, there is no mention from you about the Israeli's that were protesting against the soldiers getting punished for torturing Palestinians. However, if the roles were reversed, you would be blasting it everywhere.

How about this article? However, I know you will dismiss it since it was published in 2022 because you only believe the shit started in October 2023.

www.972mag.com

The odds of a violent Israeli soldier facing charges? Under 1 percent

New data shows how the Israeli army's complaints mechanism serves as a facade of accountability when it comes to soldiers who harm Palestinians.
www.972mag.com www.972mag.com
 
RaiGuy said:
yeah, ONE unidentified soldier supposedly got 7 months for torturing Palestinians. Wow, let's give them a standing ovation.
Click to expand...

Your claim was that it had been a very long time, if ever, that a soldier was punished for bad behavior. That clearly isn't the case.
Also, weirdly, there is no mention from you about the Israeli's that were protesting against the soldiers getting punished for torturing Palestinians.
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Obviously, I can't help what Israeli's protest, nor does the opinion of civilians matter.
However, if the roles were reversed, you would be blasting it everywhere.
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Speculative.
How about this article? However, I know you will dismiss it since it was published in 2022 because you only believe the shit started in October 2023.

www.972mag.com

The odds of a violent Israeli soldier facing charges? Under 1 percent

New data shows how the Israeli army's complaints mechanism serves as a facade of accountability when it comes to soldiers who harm Palestinians.
www.972mag.com www.972mag.com
Click to expand...


Without going through the claims, case by case, there really isn't much to comment on. As I mentioned earlier, your sources portray things in particular way and it's clearly biased. I'm absolutely sure that there have been war crimes committed that were unpunished or under punished. That is sure to be true in every war that has ever been fought.
 
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ZenMode said:
Your claim was that it had been a very long time, if ever, that a soldier was punished for bad behavior. That clearly isn't the case. Obviously, I can't help what Israeli's protest, nor does the opinion of civilians matter. Speculative.



Without going through the claims, case by case, there really isn't much to comment on. As I mentioned earlier. your sources portray things in particular way and it's clearly biased. I'm absolutely sure that there have been war crimes committed that were unpunished or under punished. That is sure to be true in ever war that has ever been fought.
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There is too much hypocrisy in your post for me to even try to debate it.
 
It is clear that Israel does bad stuff because they don’t GAF and because they can get away with it.

There are no “good guys” here. Just various shades of bad. Israel is more aligned with our values and interests than Hamas so they have the benefit of having our support.
 
RaiGuy said:
yeah, ONE unidentified soldier supposedly got 7 months for torturing Palestinians. Wow, let's give them a standing ovation.
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A lesson here is to avoid categorical statements, because categorical statements are usually wrong and then it's just catnip to folks like Zen.

It's not plausible that nobody from the IDF has been punished. They will always have scapegoats, at a minimum. The better question would be something like, "can you show me any evidence that the IDF has made a meaningful effort to combat this behavior"? Phrased this way, the example provided actually supports the point for the reason you state: no organization that takes the allegation of torture seriously would impose a 7 month sentence for it. Under federal American law, torture gets you 20 years. 7 months? That's not a serious effort. That's just window dressing, and not even good window dressing.
 
superrific said:
A lesson here is to avoid categorical statements, because categorical statements are usually wrong and then it's just catnip to folks like Zen.

It's not plausible that nobody from the IDF has been punished. They will always have scapegoats, at a minimum. The better question would be something like, "can you show me any evidence that the IDF has made a meaningful effort to combat this behavior"? Phrased this way, the example provided actually supports the point for the reason you state: no organization that takes the allegation of torture seriously would impose a 7 month sentence for it. Under federal American law, torture gets you 20 years. 7 months? That's not a serious effort. That's just window dressing, and not even good window dressing.
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"Under federal American law, torture gets you 20 years"

You should look up the Abu Ghraib (sp?) guards' sentences. I think the max was 3 years for those who agreed to a plea deal, as this Israeli soldier did. I believe most were less than a year.
 
ZenMode said:
"Under federal American law, torture gets you 20 years"

You should look up the Abu Ghraib (sp?) guards' sentences. I think the max was 3 years for those who agreed to a plea deal, as this Israeli soldier did. I believe most were less than a year.
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1. One of them received 10 years.
2. Do you think Abu Ghraib was a model to be followed?
 
superrific said:
1. One of them received 10 years.
2. Do you think Abu Ghraib was a model to be followed?
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Right, the one who went to trial got 10 years.

I don't think anything about Abu Ghraib other than the sentences, for those who got a plea deal, were absolutely in line with the IDF soldier's deal.
 
ZenMode said:
Right, the one who went to trial got 10 years.

I don't think anything about Abu Ghraib other than the sentences, for those who got a plea deal, were absolutely in line with the IDF soldier's deal.
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That's because they didn't offer a plea deal to the ring leader. Which is what any organization should do.

Anyway, the situations were not the same. The cases against the soldiers were complicated by the existence of that torture memo saying that torture was OK as long as they didn't cause "severe mental or physical distress." This IDF guy was beating prisoners with a rifle while they were bound and blindfolded. There is no dispute about whether that is allowed. That is obvious mistreatment in breach of international law and it's not a close case.

AND, Abu Ghraib was not a model to follow. The clean-up was less of a whitewash than My Lai, but IIRC it was generally viewed unfavorably.
 

Bluesky

bsky.app bsky.app

Israeli strike destroys al-Ahli Baptist hospital, Gaza's last facility in the north​

The Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital is out of action after Israeli warplanes destroyed one of its buildings in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Loading…

www.newarab.com

“… Since October 2023, Israel has systematically destroyed Gaza’s health infrastructure, wiping out 34 hospitals and leaving vast areas of the strip without access to emergency care.

The United Nations has warned of what it calls the "de-development" of Gaza’s healthcare system, a process it says appears deliberate. …”
 
nycfan said:

Bluesky

bsky.app bsky.app

Israeli strike destroys al-Ahli Baptist hospital, Gaza's last facility in the north​

The Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital is out of action after Israeli warplanes destroyed one of its buildings in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Loading…

www.newarab.com

“… Since October 2023, Israel has systematically destroyed Gaza’s health infrastructure, wiping out 34 hospitals and leaving vast areas of the strip without access to emergency care.

The United Nations has warned of what it calls the "de-development" of Gaza’s healthcare system, a process it says appears deliberate. …”
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Nothing to see here. All the hospitals were collateral damage because, you know, Hamas. Or wait, maybe it wasn’t Israel that did it? It was just random bombs from the sky. (Am I doing it right?)
 
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