Israel Hamas War, West Bank, Etc. | Hostilities resume

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The Guardian:

At least 27 Palestinians killed and dozens wounded by Israeli fire near food distribution point, say local health authorities​

At least 27 Palestinians were killed and dozens wounded by Israeli fire near a food distribution site in the southern Gaza Strip on Tuesday, local health authorities said.

It is the third consecutive day of similar incidents as Israel attempts to impose a new aid distribution regime on the Gaza Strip, which it has been blockading for weeks.

The Israeli military said its forces had opened fire on a group of individuals who had left designated access routes near the distribution centre in Rafah.

Journalists have not been able to independently the casualty count, but Reuters reports a spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross told the news agency its field hospital in Rafah received 184 casualties, adding that 19 of those were declared dead upon arrival, and eight died of their wounds shortly after.
 
The things that are being asked of Israel are insane.

They are at war with a group of people who elected a government who wants to annihilate them. That group takes hostages. The war escalates. Hostages not released.

Israel is then expected to facilitate and enable aid to the group of people who they are at war with.
 
altmin said:
The Guardian:

At least 27 Palestinians killed and dozens wounded by Israeli fire near food distribution point, say local health authorities​

At least 27 Palestinians were killed and dozens wounded by Israeli fire near a food distribution site in the southern Gaza Strip on Tuesday, local health authorities said.

It is the third consecutive day of similar incidents as Israel attempts to impose a new aid distribution regime on the Gaza Strip, which it has been blockading for weeks.

The Israeli military said its forces had opened fire on a group of individuals who had left designated access routes near the distribution centre in Rafah.

Journalists have not been able to independently the casualty count, but Reuters reports a spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross told the news agency its field hospital in Rafah received 184 casualties, adding that 19 of those were declared dead upon arrival, and eight died of their wounds shortly after.
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This is why Israel wants to control all of Gaza, remove Hamas entirely or as much as possible and ensure that aid is getting where it needs to go.

It's hilarious that anyone believes that Israel, who has taken meaningful steps to not kill civilians, is now opening fire on people trying to get food.
 
farce© said:
How does Israel determine who is Hamas?
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They have a pretty good idea who the leadership is due to their beefy intelligence apparatus. They are also able to intercept phone calls and identify Hamas soldiers through other intelligence means. This works well for pre-planned, targeted strikes. For your average soldier or commander in the heat of the moment, though, I suspect there is no good way to identify who is Hamas and who isn't.
 
altmin said:
The Guardian:

At least 27 Palestinians killed and dozens wounded by Israeli fire near food distribution point, say local health authorities​

At least 27 Palestinians were killed and dozens wounded by Israeli fire near a food distribution site in the southern Gaza Strip on Tuesday, local health authorities said.

It is the third consecutive day of similar incidents as Israel attempts to impose a new aid distribution regime on the Gaza Strip, which it has been blockading for weeks.

The Israeli military said its forces had opened fire on a group of individuals who had left designated access routes near the distribution centre in Rafah.

Journalists have not been able to independently the casualty count, but Reuters reports a spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross told the news agency its field hospital in Rafah received 184 casualties, adding that 19 of those were declared dead upon arrival, and eight died of their wounds shortly after.
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AP report

 
HintonJamesHeel said:
The things that are being asked of Israel are insane.

They are at war with a group of people who elected a government who wants to annihilate them. That group takes hostages. The war escalates. Hostages not released.

Israel is then expected to facilitate and enable aid to the group of people who they are at war with.
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Oh really? Asking them to stop people from starving is insane? Asking them not to shoot at people trying to get food is insane?

You really don't understand the history. Let me educate you real quick since it has been covered many times before. First of all, half the population was not even alive when the elections happened. Secondly, Hamas was elected because the other parties were corrupt and Hamas was actually helping people and said they were promising to put down arms. However, Israel immediately started the blockade and escalated the tensions once again.

Also, you do know that Israel has way more "hostages" that they've held on to for years (way before Oct 7th), but they call them prisoners. Most have not been charged with anything and some were young children. Yet, of course, they don't count since Palestinian lives don't seem to matter.
 
RaiGuy said:
Oh really? Asking them to stop people from starving is insane? Asking them not to shoot at people trying to get food is insane?

You really don't understand the history. Let me educate you real quick since it has been covered many times before. First of all, half the population was not even alive when the elections happened. Secondly, Hamas was elected because the other parties were corrupt and Hamas was actually helping people and said they were promising to put down arms. However, Israel immediately started the blockade and escalated the tensions once again.

Also, you do know that Israel has way more "hostages" that they've held on to for years (way before Oct 7th), but they call them prisoners. Most have not been charged with anything and some were young children. Yet, of course, they don't count since Palestinian lives don't seem to matter.
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My point is Israel is at war yet they are expected to help the people they are at war with.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
My point is Israel is at war yet they are expected to help the people they are at war with.
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Is Israel at war with Hamas or with the Palestinian people as a whole? That distinction matters. Even during armed conflict, international law requires parties to protect civilians and allow humanitarian aid. Being at war doesn't give a blank check to ignore the suffering of noncombatants.
 
Paine said:
Is Israel at war with Hamas or with the Palestinian people as a whole? That distinction matters. Even during armed conflict, international law requires parties to protect civilians and allow humanitarian aid. Being at war doesn't give a blank check to ignore the suffering of noncombatants.
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Hamas is the government of Palestine.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
Hamas is the government of Palestine.
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Wrong. Hamas governs Gaza not all of Palestine. The Palestinian Authority governs parts of the West Bank. But even if Hamas controls Gaza (does anyone actually think they’re controlling Gaza currently?), that doesn't erase the distinction between combatants and civilians. Governments don’t equal entire populations. That’s why targeting civilians or denying them aid is still illegal under international law.
 
Paine said:
Wrong. Hamas governs Gaza, not all of Palestine. The Palestinian Authority governs parts of the West Bank. But even if Hamas controls Gaza (does anyone actually think they’re controlling Gaza currently?), that doesn't erase the distinction between combatants and civilians. Governments don’t equal entire populations. That’s why targeting civilians or denying them aid is still illegal under international law.
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That is correct. And I'll add that the inducement of mass starvation is 100% a crime against humanity that has no justification.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
My point is Israel is at war yet they are expected to help the people they are at war with.
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You know who starved millions? Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. The Sudanese in Darfur.

That's the company Bibi and Israel is keeping. I cannot think of any other examples in modern history of war-by-starvation. It has never been used by any developed world nation as a means to an end.

Telling Israel that it cannot cause a famine isn't putting them on a double standard. It is holding them to the standard that every civilized nation adheres to.
 
Paine said:
Is Israel at war with Hamas or with the Palestinian people as a whole? That distinction matters. Even during armed conflict, international law requires parties to protect civilians and allow humanitarian aid. Being at war doesn't give a blank check to ignore the suffering of noncombatants.
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He’s pretty clear that it’s all of the Palestinian people. Israel not being allowed to starve every last child to death is a ridiculous double standard for him.

I feel like being pro death during COVID has really opened people up to being genocidal maniacs.
 
Lando said:
I feel like being pro death during COVID has really opened people up to being genocidal maniacs.
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100%. The simple act of masking to protect your fellow citizens was indicative of the stunning lack of empathy among the average American. This was decades in the making but really accelerated with the arrival of the pandemic.

The emotion is understandable though not one that I’ve personally had. That is, “everything is fucked, I might as well get mine/provide for my immediate family.”

The culmination (I hope) of this moment was the 2024 election.
 
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